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Common sense? Would that be the sense that MOST people would have? No thank you. Wide is the road that leads to destruction.
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So do yo believe in common sense or not , because your last post says you do.
You believed all sinned , then you changed your mind and said the only one that have sinned are the ones that know the Law. You need someone like Sciota who is learnt in this false doctrine that the whole world does not mean all , as in all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, to bale you out.
Has anyone here considered doing a indepth study of Judaism for it is the heritage of Christianity?...It may give a better understanding of what Christ meant...For He was a Jew and lived and died as a Jew...
And yet He was God in Christ reconciling the world(All) to Himself . God is not a jew
So you do not believe all have sinned ? Like i said Hot your Aha moment was a false alarm
And if you are open to the things of God , this scripture will pull the rug from under your false doctrine about all not sinning.
Romans 2 and verse 12 . All who have sinned without the law, will perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the law , will be judged by the Law
Well, shucks pcamps,,,what do I say to this?
All who have sinned without the law?
All who have sinned under the law?
Does this mean all have sinned?
What about those who have not sinned without the law?
What about those who have not sinned under the law?
We already know, for a FACT, 1 has not sinned under the law. You know His Name, right?
Is He not included in your ALL, or is He left out of your ALL?
Paul says ALL have sinned, yet Jesus was sinless. Well, how can all be all if One is left out? Hmm,, Doesn't sound like all then does it.
And I don't need anyone to bail me out.
If I stumble on how I say things on a post board, doesn't mean they are not clear in my head. I understand it fine. You reread posts trying to trap and trick, which are tools of the devil. In fact the only reason you are even talking to me, after countless hours of debate is so you can TRY and trap me saying something cross.
Well, I may not be as astute in debates as you are, but I can handle my own when the Truth is on my side.
All who have sinned without the law?
All who have sinned under the law?
Does this mean all have sinned?
What about those who have not sinned without the law?
What about those who have not sinned under the law?
We already know, for a FACT, 1 has not sinned under the law. You know His Name, right?
Is He not included in your ALL, or is He left out of your ALL?
Paul says ALL have sinned, yet Jesus was sinless. Well, how can all be all if One is left out? Hmm,, Doesn't sound like all then does it.
And I don't need anyone to bail me out.
If I stumble on how I say things on a post board, doesn't mean they are not clear in my head. I understand it fine. You reread posts trying to trap and trick, which are tools of the devil. In fact the only reason you are even talking to me, after countless hours of debate is so you can TRY and trap me saying something cross.
Well, I may not be as astute in debates as you are, but I can handle my own when the Truth is on my side.
HotinAZ you are still talking codswallop
All jews cand gentiles alike are under the power of sin Romans 3 verse 9 and for context read the rest of the chapter . If you believe some did not sin before the law was introduced , what you are saying is they did not need a savior
And yet He was God in Christ reconciling the world(All) to Himself . God is not a jew
He did come into the world as a Jew, circumcised a Jew, and followed the Torah as a Jew....hmmm I guess He was a Jew.
I am an inwardly Jew....as Paul stated.
Christ came to free the captives...Jews....in covenant, with God
By that ransom, I, and inward Jew, just as Ruth and Rahab....are saved, because that covenant He made with Adam to Noah to Abraham to Davd, has been reconciled.
All jews cand gentiles alike are under the power of sin Romans 3 verse 9 and for context read the rest of the chapter . If you believe no one sinned before the law , what you are saying is they did not need a savior
All Jews and Gentiles are called Jews in Christ.... hence New Jerusalem..
This is Pauline theology 101.
Now add to the scriptures you two quoted above ...
Why? You ready to learn something?
Quote:
Rom 5:13
for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
Not taken into account. So does this mean they didn't die? Hmm. How about they did die bodily, but not a spiritual death because it was not reckoned against them.
Quote:
So before the law was Given sin was in the world, but mankind took no thought for sin because the law had not yet been Given.
Mankind would take no thought for sin, because God took no thought for sin. They were alive apart from the law, or haven't you read?
And the verse just before that is ...
Quote:
Rom 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, becauseall sinned--
Sin ENTERED the WORLD(KOSMOS)? WHERE?? It is why they were kicked out. Adam was given this WORLD(KOSMOS), fallen in nature and darkness, thanks to him. It is not the entire earth. Or do you actually believe Adam was the first EVER human being? Hmm...
And then we read ...
Quote:
Rom 5:19
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
It now says the 'many' were MADE sinners. Why 'many' and not 'all'? And how were they MADE sinners? Made as in what, exactly? Made as in offspring? Hmm...
Quote:
Because of the disobedience of one man, adam, "all people"/"the many"=== """"not computable"""""were made sinners. And the proof that all people are sinners is the fact that all people die, before and after the law was given, for the wages of sin is death.
Ahh, you think this is talking about the flesh?? Ok, now I see where you have erred. Everything on this planet dies, or haven't you heard. Does this mean everything on the planet has sinned? And you all say I don't use commmon sense?
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When the law is given, then one becomes aware of sin and right there dies by the knowledge of condemnation.
So, for some, better to have not heard of the law, right?
Quote:
Then we see a new hope, in Christ and in the knowledge of his obedience and all that he has done in being the propitiation for the sin of the whole world and all those who were made sinners by the disobedience of Adam.
Ahh, original sin, huh? sorry, don't believe that doctine either. The whole world(KOSMOS) is who Jesus is the propitiation for. Tell someone who have never heard of such a thing, and they will look blindly at you like you were crazy or something. Let the religious dogma go, and learn..
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You cannot separate the people who are sinners, all people, from the people whom Christ died for. Because Christ died for sinners, and all are sinners as is evident in that all die.
Again, you refer to the flesh. "Look past the flesh and these dull cow eyes." - Agent Smith
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The disobedience of Adam affected the curse of sin and death on the lives of every person who will ever be born, and the obedience of Christ even more abundantly shall cause all those who have been cursed by the disobedience of Adam to be blessed and healed and made alive and righteous.
Sounds so snappy. How did Adam affect the curse of sin? Was it not by HIS SIN that HE WAS CURSED? And you say my version of God is messed up? Your version of God says a man is a sinner who is a newborn, just by being born. Interesting. Show me in scripture, without using David's mother who sinned and brought David into conception.
Quote:
Romans chapters 5-11 teaches all of this and so much more ...
I know,,,been studying it. Have you? Really?
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Doesn't sound like all then does it. 