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Sciotamick i am sure much of what you and i believe is poles apart , but i respect your indepth knowledge in what you believe(whether it be true or not). I would also say you are an intelligent person , so i cannot understand why you would not see that through man falling spiritually it effected his whole being.Maybe it's because you are sold out to Preterism it want allow you to see it, truth does not revolve around Preterism nor Universalism , He is the Truth. This why i refuse to call myself a universalist, because the moment i do i am declaring this is it,there's nothing else to know and i am no longer open to what God wants to be made known. Much of what i believe as occured over the 26 years i have believed and not since i have accepted the truth of UR,a lot of what i have believed through those 26 years i no longer do, much of it before i accepted the truth of UR.
Very well pcamps, however, you are wrong about me. I try with vigor to open the word of God without any preconceived ideas about what it says, and let it speak to me. Scriptural confirmation is everywhere, and the fact is, it must be weighed against itself, not against what we think or feel about in "our hearts." Our hearts are deceitful.
The Bible tells us what our spirit is and how it should act.
The Bible is the living word of God. It is His words.
Preterism is dead in my opinion.
I believe in fulfilled scriptures. And lastly, I never said that fallen man affected his whole being...it did. Adam returned to dust, without resurrection, without life...that is the curse Adam received. Not physical death. That was a pre-requisite for man to begin with. Adam was given the tree of life to eat from it forever, yet he sinned, and was destined to physical and in his spiritual death, without spiritual life.
Only until Christ, did that life, come reconciled....for those...who believe.
God will not resurrect the wicked to immortal life in order to inflict upon them a punishment of eternal pain. Rather the wicked will be resurrected mortal in order to receive their punishment which will result in their ultimate annihilation.
IN CASE ANYONE IS INTERESTED, HERE IS A UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION POINT OF VIEW OF THE SUBJECT THAT RESPONDS TO THE ARGUMENTS USED BY ANNIHILATIONISTS
Very well pcamps, however, you are wrong about me. I try with vigor to open the word of God without any preconceived ideas about what it says, and let it speak to me. Scriptural confirmation is everywhere, and the fact is, it must be weighed against itself, not against what we think or feel about in "our hearts." Our hearts are deceitful.
This subject is one i believe to be responsible for much of the error of the teachings of traditional fundamental Christianity.
Mat 13:15
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
The truth of the Gospel is given by the spirit and understood by the heart of the spiritually quickened.
If you have been quickened by the spirit and your heart is telling you that there is something wrong with what you are believing, you should trust in the understanding of the heart over the teachings of men. It is by communicating with the regenerate heart that God leads us by the spirit.
Mat 13:19
When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.
The reason why people do not understand the gospel is becuase the enemy steals it from our heart. Understanding comes from the heart ...
Mat 15:8
These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
The wicked servant, those consumed by religiosity and trust in the traditions of men, cannot trust their heart, because it is hardened and far away from God. So when God tries to speak to them and give them understanding from the heart, they reject it in favor of the traditions of men which make the word of God of none effect. They only appear to be Godly outwardly, like white washed tomb stones they are filled with death and corruption on the inside.
Act 2:37
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"
The spirit convicts us of truth through the understanding of the heart ...
Rom 2:29
No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
When we are quickened by the spirit we are circumcised in the heart and we are born again a new creature. God then comes into our hearts and he speaks to us from the heart, if you cannot listen to your heart and instead trust in your the understanding of others and in the traditional teachings of the church, you will be a blind person being led by other blind people.
Quote:
The Bible tells us what our spirit is and how it should act.
The Bible is the living word of God. It is His words.
Rom 10:8
But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming" ...
The living word of God is in our hearts ... The living word is Christ, not the bible. The bible is the dead letter, Christ is the living word. Your bible is not alive, it is an inanimate object ... When people claim that their bibles are the living word of God, they are in effect committing idolatry.
Rom 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
2Cr 3:3
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
The true ministry of the Gospel is written in our hearts, and not with ink or carved into stone. The scriptures themselves are inspired, but they are also susceptible to clerical errors and mistranslation and misinterpretation. If you cannot listen to the spirit communicate with you in your heart to give you understanding, then you will be unable to hear and see the truth of the Gospel.
Ironmaw...let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God
Your word proofing is elementary to say the least...I can do the same in both testaments contradictory to your premise......however, it depends if you have been quickened or not now does it?....Jeremiah 17...read it.....and stay in context next time.....The Gospel is written in your heart, not us writing what is in our hearts onto the Gospel.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 11-04-2010 at 02:03 PM..
If you cannot listen to the spirit communicate with you in your heart to give you understanding, then you will be unable to hear and see the truth of the Gospel.
And if I can listen to the Spirit, which I do,,and so can the rest of you,,,how come we have so differing views? Could it be that some really are not listening? And if they are not, then who is there to "trust" who REALLY, TRULY, has the TRUTH? Is this not why EVERYTHING must be weighed against the WHOLE counsel of the Word, correct?
And if I can listen to the Spirit, which I do,,and so can the rest of you,,,how come we have so differing views? Could it be that some really are not listening? And if they are not, then who is there to "trust" who REALLY, TRULY, has the TRUTH? Is this not why EVERYTHING must be weighed against the WHOLE counsel of the Word, correct?
The only truth worth possessing is the reality of Him in your life(He is the truth) , that is the only thing we can all agree on.
And if I can listen to the Spirit, which I do,,and so can the rest of you,,,how come we have so differing views? Could it be that some really are not listening? And if they are not, then who is there to "trust" who REALLY, TRULY, has the TRUTH? Is this not why EVERYTHING must be weighed against the WHOLE counsel of the Word, correct?
Wash, rinse and repeat.....let's find another thread.
EVERYTHING must be weighed against the WHOLE counsel of the Word, correct?
We could go on saying this to each other til the cow's come home and get nowhere and that is why i said "The only truth worth possessing is the reality of Him in your life(He is the truth) , that is the only thing we can all agree on".
We could go on saying this to each other til the cow's come home and get nowhere and that is why i said "The only truth worth possessing is the reality of Him in your life(He is the truth) , that is the only thing we can all agree on".
I believe that the tests of whether or nor a person or even a teaching or doctrine is godly, is the fruit of the tree test. What fruit does the teaching of ET and Annihilation bare in the lives of those that believe it or are told about it. Does it give them peace, hope, faith, love? Or does it produce fear, restlessness, doubt, hate?
Its obvious that some people cant hear what the spirit is saying, and i believe in most cases if they are religious they will end up being allot like the pharisees, and their fruit and doctrines will testify of it.
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A ur response to annihilationism
