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I know I am right about this, and the Holy Spirity confirms me of it, but assuming one is right and the other one is wrong:
- If I am wrong, then everyone will be saved. That's wonderful.
If you are wrong then you have been living the wrong life and living a lie, and perhaps do not even know God.
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- If you are wrong, everyone who listened to you will be lost forever.
So you think it would be Ironmaw's fault that some people are lost forever? Strange how Ironmaw's actions could be stronger than God's will...
What you have posted above is really a modified pascal's wager - which unfortunately fails for many reasons. It could be that you both are wrong and then what? You may think your view is safer, but that is not the point. The point is not to take the safe view - the point is to determine what is true.
Sigh....the judgment..... you say I am hateful and unloving because I believe the Bible.....some things never change. Are you loving? Is this how you show it?
Your desire, or my desire won't save anyone. Do you really think that if you desire something, then it becomes the reality?
I know I am right about this, and the Holy Spirity confirms me of it, but assuming one is right and the other one is wrong:
- If I am wrong, then everyone will be saved. That's wonderful.
- If you are wrong, everyone who listened to you will be lost forever.
No, i think that if God desires something it will become a reality, while you believe and teach that God cannot get what he desires and that his word fails to accomplish his desire, which is the salvation of all people.
You don know what you are talking about, i am sure that A spirit confirms to you that the torture of most of humanity for ever is a good thing and true, but its not the holy spirit ... More like a spirit of violence and hate.
If you're right, most humans will be tortured for ever, and that is terrble and monstrous ... Diabolical even.
Sigh....the judgment..... you say I am hateful and unloving because I believe the Bible.....some things never change. Are you loving? Is this how you show it?
Your desire, or my desire won't save anyone. Do you really think that if you desire something, then it becomes the reality?
I know I am right about this, and the Holy Spirity confirms me of it, but assuming one is right and the other one is wrong:
- If I am wrong, then everyone will be saved. That's wonderful.
- If you are wrong, everyone who listened to you will be lost forever.
There is no fear in perfect love.
Learning with the backdrop of Dante's hell, Augustine's doctrines, and Greek mythology will not lead to the perfect love of Christ. Christ taught that the religious, who dumped incredible burdens onto their followers, would suffer and be thrown out of the kingdom into outer darkness, which they were in 70 A.D. (Gehenna=Hell), and they've been wandering out there ever since, except they will receive mercy, as we received mercy in our ignorance (Gentiles prior to Christ). The Gentiles were handed the baton, but the Gentiles (or the Gentiles guilty within Gentile nations) will be judged just as harshly as the Jews were, in due time, I'm sure, for their part in the crushing of nations, taking advantage of the weak, and all the other crimes the Jews were a part of. The Gentiles were never supposed to become arrogant. They were warned they would be broken off as well.
If you are wrong then you have been living the wrong life and living a lie, and perhaps do not even know God.
Let's allow God to judge my relationship with Him, shall we?
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So you think it would be Ironmaw's fault that some people are lost forever? Strange how Ironmaw's actions could be stronger than God's will...
People are held accountable for their actions. Even ur's believe that, but now you suggest that it may not be the case after all. The Bible talks about false teachers and those who lay stumbling blocks for other people. Why does the Bible warn about false teachers? Because they will lead others astray. It is a very valid warning. Why does God tell us to put on the armor of God? So that we can tell the truth from the lie. He will not force the armor on you, and He will allow false teachers to deceive people, but he tells us to be strong and fight against it.
No, i think that if God desires something it will become a reality.
You keep making declarations about what I desire (as if you knew) and what you desire, but now you admit that it has nothing to do with how God has arranged things.
Let's allow God to judge my relationship with Him, shall we?
I said "if".
If you are wrong, then it is quite likely you do not know God, because you think God allows people to be tormented forever, when that would not be the case, that is, if you are wrong.
Pay attention to all the words please.
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People are held accountable for their actions. Even ur's believe that, but now you suggest that it may not be the case after all.
First you say people are accountable for their actions -> then you suggest ironmaw is accountable for someoneelse going to hell?
(And yes I believe people are accountable for their own actions but that is not we are talking about).
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The Bible talks about false teachers and those who lay stumbling blocks for other people. Why does the Bible warn about false teachers? Because they will lead others astray. It is a very valid warning. Why does God tell us to put on the armor of God? So that we can tell the truth from the lie. He will not force the armor on you, and He will allow false teachers to deceive people, but he tells us to be strong and fight against it.
Sure. Have you considered that perhaps you have been led astray, perhaps you have been deceived? Perhaps the many pastors in the church who preach eternal torment are in fact false teachers, deceiving many people?
Jesus said there will be 'MANY who come in my name and deceive MANY'. Its certainly not the URs who are MANY. Its certainly not the atheists or Muslim's who are deceiving many in Jesus name - they don't claim to come in His name. Well who is it then? It is the mainstream Church - those who claim to come in the name of Jesus - deceiving many with their teaching on how God will fail to save most of mankind and simply let them fall into endless torment, there being nothing God can do about it except hope that we somehow 'make the right choice'. That is the MANY. Or the Calvinists who claim God never intened to save the majority and in fact gains glory by the endless torment of others. That is who is deceiving MANY.
First you say people are accountable for their actions -> then you suggest ironmaw is accountable for someoneelse going to hell?
You know what I meant. Only God, the judge, sends people to hell, but a false teacher will be held accountable for teaching a false message. A murderer will be accountable for murder, and the unbeliever for their unbelief.
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Sure. Have you considered that perhaps you have been led astray, perhaps you have been deceived?
Yes, of course there was a time when I considered it, and I took the Biblical advice and examined my faith. The Holy Spirit, prayer and the study of the word of God assured me that I have not been deceived.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 11-30-2010 at 01:33 PM..
Jesus said there will be 'MANY who come in my name and deceive MANY'. Its certainly not the URs who are MANY. Its certainly not the atheists or Muslim's who are deceiving many in Jesus name - they don't claim to come in His name. Well who is it then? It is the mainstream Church
God knows who they are and will judge them. IMO Catholic church come in name of God, but many times fall short of delivering the truth, so they could be lumped together in the MANY. I will lump URs and the JWs there too since they do not preach the truth IMO.
God knows who they are and will judge them. IMO Catholic church come in name of God, but many times fall short of delivering the truth, so they could be lumped together in the MANY. I will lump URs and the JWs there too since they do not preach the truth IMO.
Be careful someone may be lumping you in with some other undesirable group.
Yes the protestants think the Catholics are going to hell and the Catholics think the protestants are going to hell and everyone thinks the JWs are going to hell and the URs are the worst because they believe everyone is saved so they really deserve hell so I guess everyone is going to hell because all these people are false teachers and leading everyone straight to hell.
Sounds exactly like what Jesus taught.
Love God.
Love your neighbor.
Love your enemy.
Let me put it simply.
The false teaching that Jesus warned about is not that God loves everyone and that God is able and willing to save all men and that we should be like God so we should be loving to all as well.
The false teaching that Jesus warned about is the selfish carnal (pharisee) hypocrisy that God is unable or unwilling to save everyone and leaves most of His creation in endless torment, but of course I'm saved.
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So you think it would be Ironmaw's fault that some people are lost forever? Strange how Ironmaw's actions could be stronger than God's will...
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