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Yes the protestants think the Catholics are going to hell and the Catholics think the protestants are going to hell
No, they don't. I have never heard anyone declare that all Catholics are going to hell because they are Catholics. Nor have I ever heard a Catholic declare that protestants are going to hell for being protestant. Such declarations would be as lame as you delaring that mainstream church teaches a false message.
I should clarify about the Catholic Church: If you follow the news you see scandals revolving around the Catholic church, so obviously there is an element within the Catholic church who do not follow Christ, but the desires of the flesh. I am talking about those individuals, not the Catholic church in general. I am also talking about some of the beliefs some Catholic churces teach which are not Biblical. I know Catholics who are saved, so to lump them all in one basket would be dishonest.
Yes the protestants think the Catholics are going to hell and the Catholics think the protestants are going to hell and everyone thinks the JWs are going to hell and the URs are the worst because they believe everyone is saved so they really deserve hell.
Interesting isn't it! I went to Bible school with an ETer who believes that universalist Christians are going to spend eternity in hell simply because we don't believe in eternal hell.
It's as if he thought that ET is our saviour, not Jesus.
BTW, you forgot the Muslims legoman.
Millions of Muslims are taught that Christians are going to suffer forever in hell. "Non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished in hell eternally"
quoted from Islamic Belief about the Afterlife The Afterlife in Islam - ReligionFacts
A Muslim missionary called me on my ministry phone in response to my newspaper ad “HELL IS NOT ENDLESS.”
(I have sent out many hundreds of packets of free literature to people who responded to these ads that I have put in two of Toronto’s largest newspapers since 1981.)
The Muslim missionary said “Unless you convert to Islam you WILL go to hell.”
I said, “That’s what Christians say about those who don’t convert to Christianity.”
He said, “But the difference is that Islam has the truth.”
I said, “That’s what Christians say about their beliefs.”
He said, “After you die you will learn that the Koran is the word of God and Islam has the truth.”
I said, “I guess I’ll just have to wait until then to find out for sure.”
He said, “But it will be too late for you then.”
I laughed and said, “That’s exactly what the Christians say.”
I don’t think he thought it was funny.
It seems that we are supposed to believe that millions of Muslims, by sheer “accident” of birth, are born into a belief system that teaches their children that even to consider Christianity to be the truth will land them in an eternity of suffering in hell.
The poor little Muslim kids don't have much of a "chance" of escaping the effect of that kind of psychological pressure as they become adults.
I know, because as a child I suffered greatly, and later in life too, from the same threats of eternal hell from the ET people in my life that I had relied on to tell me the truth.
That is why I am so thankful for testimonies like Charles Slagle's ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST absolute assurance in jesus christ
No, they don't. I have never heard anyone declare that all Catholics are going to hell because they are Catholics. Nor have I ever heard a Catholic declare that protestants are going to hell for being protestant. Such declarations would be as lame as you delaring that mainstream church teaches a false message.
I should clarify about the Catholic Church: If you follow the news you see scandals revolving around the Catholic church, so obviously there is an element within the Catholic church who do not follow Christ, but the desires of the flesh. I am talking about those individuals, not the Catholic church in general. I am also talking about some of the beliefs some Catholic churces teach which are not Biblical. I know Catholics who are saved, so to lump them all in one basket would be dishonest.
LOL its ok Finn. Did I mention my wife is Catholic and I play piano at the Catholic church we go to yet I still believe in UR? I suppose I am condemned double now...
But you missed the point. If we say that anyone who teaches something different than what we personally believe is either 1. leading other people to hell or 2. going to hell themselves, you are making a big assumption that you have the truth in the first place.
Furthermore, you must include yourself as a possibility in that category, for certainly other people are thinking you are a false teacher also, and you are thus in the same predicament as those you condemn. This degrades to the situation where everyone thinks everyone else is going to hell except themselves, because no one else has the 'right truth'. It is the hypocrisy of condemnation. Everyone condemns each other but no one can admit they might be wrong, and thus admit that they themselves are condemned. You even see it on this forum when one set of hell believers claim another set of hell believers are going to hell because they don't follow the right 'rules' or do the right things.
The only thing that makes sense out of this mess is that God intended us to not see things clearly for a while before He reveals that He is going to save everyone.
LOL its ok Finn. Did I mention my wife is Catholic and I play piano at the Catholic church we go to yet I still believe in UR? I suppose I am condemned double now....
Only if you misrepresent what I just said.
Besides, I don't think I have ever heard anyone here say urs are going to hell for being ur. No one goes to hell unless they reject Christ. If you believe in Christ you are not going to hell, that is the promise of Jesus Christ. That is what it boils down to.
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you must include yourself as a possibility in that category, for certainly other people are thinking you are a false teacher also
I will let God judge me. I don't care what other people think, and if you think the church teaches false teaching, then that is your judgmental opinon, and it doesn't bother me.
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this degrades to the situation where everyone thinks everyone else is going to hell except themselves
I will let God judge people. I believe everyone who is saved has eternal life regardless of their demonimation. It is as simple as that.
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Everyone condemns each other but no one can admit they might be wrong
So there is a chance you will admit you are wrong. I wonder because you just declared the church teaches a false message, while you have the truth.
Everything you say applies to you too.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 11-30-2010 at 02:49 PM..
You keep making declarations about what I desire (as if you knew) and what you desire, but now you admit that it has nothing to do with how God has arranged things.
God said he will have all men to be saved, and that is the way he arranged things ...
If God worked his purpose according to the will of mankind, everything would probably be as you believe, but God does not work anything out according to the will of man.
God works out all things in accordance to the counsel of his own will. And he will have all people to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth ... and not the will of man, neither sin or death, nor hell or angel or demon ... Nothing can get in the way of him having his own will done on earth as it is in heaven.
Besides, I don't think I have ever heard anyone here say urs are going to hell for being ur. No one goes to hell unless they reject Christ. If you believe in Christ you are not going to hell, that is the promise of Jesus Christ. That is what it boils down to.
You don't read this forum much then do you? LOL there are some on here that say all UR believers are going to hell, not to mention other misc groups that don't believe exactly the right things.
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I will let God judge me. I don't care what other people think, and if you think the church teaches false teaching, then that is your judgmental opinon, and it doesn't bother me.
I will let God judge people. I believe everyone who is saved has eternal life regardless of their demonimation. It is as simple as that.
And if you think UR is false teaching, that is your judgmental opinion... If you are going to say you will let God judge people, then consider that He may judge them all and then save them all too...
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So there is a chance you will admit you are wrong. I wonder because you just declared the church teaches a false message, while you have the truth.
Everything you say applies to you too.
Of course. Everything I say is IMHO just as everything you say is.
Of course I could be wrong. I was wrong for 30 years when I believed in eternal torment. I could be wrong now, but I don't think I am, because this is different. When I believed in eternal torment, there were certain things that just weren't discussed, because if they were examined too much, the doctrine would have imploded. Eventually it did implode when I examined it truthfully.
So with UR I have examined it from all sides - I have looked at annihilation, Armininianism, Calvinism, and none of them hold to the truth of scripture like UR does. I believe UR is true like I believe 2+2=4. But when I believed in ET I never had that feeling that it made sense like 2+2=4 makes sense.
If I am deceived, so be it, its not due to lack of studying or praying.
If I have overestimated the saving power of God, so be it - its not due to a lack of faith in Christ.
If I am condemned because of it, so be it - there's nothing I can do about it.
In short, I have surrendered to God and trust Him to work it out. And that is why I believe He will save all.
I believe everyone who is saved has eternal life regardless of their demonimation. It is as simple as that.
But all the millions of Muslims who don't dare consider Christianity because they have been taught that they will go to eternal hell if they do, you think all of them are going to suffer forever in hell don't you Finn?
Millions of Muslims are taught that Christians are going to suffer forever in hell. And you in turn think that all of them are going to spend eternity suffering in hell don't you Finn?
"Non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished in hell eternally"
quoted from Islamic Belief about the Afterlife The Afterlife in Islam - ReligionFacts
You don't read this forum much then do you? LOL there are some on here that say all UR believers are going to hell, not to mention other misc groups that don't believe exactly the right things.
I read it quite a bit, and I have never seen such comment. I am not saying such comment has never been made, just that I have never seen it.
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Of course I could be wrong. I was wrong for 30 years when I believed in eternal torment. I could be wrong now, but I don't think I am, because this is different. When I believed in eternal torment, there were certain things that just weren't discussed, because if they were examined too much, the doctrine would have imploded. Eventually it did implode when I examined it truthfully.
The opposite happened to me. The more I study, the more convinced I am.
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I believe UR is true like I believe 2+2=4. But when I believed in ET I never had that feeling that it made sense like 2+2=4 makes sense
My approach is different. I allow the Holy Spirit guide me. I know others who have been led astray by "logic". You and I will never understand God 100%.
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If I am deceived, so be it, its not due to lack of studying or praying.
If I have overestimated the saving power of God, so be it - its not due to a lack of faith in Christ.
If I am condemned because of it, so be it - there's nothing I can do about it.
In short, I have surrendered to God and trust Him to work it out. And that is why I believe He will save all
The truth is that belief in ET or disbelief in ET won't save or condemn anyone. Only belief in Christ can save, and rejection of Christ can condemn. When I allowed Christ in my life, I stopped worrying about ET and I still don't worry about. God will judge people according to His rules, and our worries won't change that. I don't worry about death either. My worries over it won't make it go away, so why worry?
But all the millions of Muslims who don't dare consider Christianity because they have been taught that they will go to eternal hell if they do, you think all of them are going to suffer forever in hell don't you Finn?
God calls Muslims too, and hundreds of thousands of Muslims have seen the light and come to Christ. Praise the Lord.
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A phone conversation with a Muslim missionary
Not sure what you are talking about.
If you are going to say you will let God judge people, then consider that He may judge them all and then save them all too...
My mind staggers under the absurdity of it all
