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Like what you bring up for example: what would have happened if I was born a Muslim.
You just can't approach these kind of questions with any kind of reason or logic without coming to the conclusion that eternal torment is false.
But Finn doesn't seem to like reason or logic.
Ever heard of:
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having *the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
So, does these verses say or not say that those people who have not heard, yet practice the Law written on their hearts,,have no hope?
Are some people so lacking in faith that they do not believe God can take care of those who haven't heard, yet walk the walk of Christ?
You can approach it with the language of the Bible, and the Bible is very clear that ALL unbelievers will be thrown in the lake of fire. Period.
Sure, along with the fearful, liars, and murderers. Have you ever lied Finn? Have you ever murdered someone (even thought about it in your heart)?
And what exactly is the lake of fire? What is its purpose? Revelations is a book of symbols, it is the revelation of Christ Himself.
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But to repeatedly demand someone to judge whether or not someone is a believer, or not and who is going to hell and who is not is nonsense. It is childish nonsense, especially when it is ALWAYS followed by mockery, more childish comments and taunts. Why do URs always behave like that?
Unbelievers are thrown in the lake of fire, but I will let God decide who is a believer and who is not. Why is this so difficult to understand?
Are all Muslims unbelievers? HOW SHOULD I KNOW????? Do you know?
I think you are taking this a bit too hard because you don't want to answer the question. Perhaps Rodger is trying to get you to think and reason through your own doctrine.
According to your own doctrine, those who don't believe in Christ are tormented forever. Maybe you didn't realize this, but Muslim's don't believe in Christ - unless they convert to Christianity. But the vast majority don't convert. So I would guess according to you they will all go to hell forever.
Or are you saying "its up to God" meaning, you don't know if they will all go to hell forever?
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having *the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
So, does these verses say or not say that those people who have not heard, yet practice the Law written on their hearts,,have no hope?
Are some people so lacking in faith that they do not believe God can take care of those who haven't heard, yet walk the walk of Christ?
What does ET even have to do wih it?
Ok this is an interesting point. Are you saying those who have never heard of Christ, never believed in Christ, but walked the walk of Christ are saved?
So there is another way to be saved? By being 'Christ-like' without knowing Christ?
I'm trying to understand what you are saying.
I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with you, but some here would say this is works salvation. And if this is true, why try to spread the gospel?
1. How do you know it is the Holy Spirit is guiding you? It brings peace, love, and joy.
Yes, praise the Lord.
Yes praise the Lord - God has given me peace and joy knowing that I will be saved even though billions of others will be tormented forever. No peace and joy for them, but peace and joy for me. Praise God.
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Some people rely logic and reason, and some rely in God.
Yes we need to rely on God to show us why it is good that He sends billions of people into eternal torment. Praise God for that.
Do you see a problem with the above statements? (try to use reason and logic)
Sure, along with the fearful, liars, and murderers. Have you ever lied Finn? Have you ever murdered someone (even thought about it in your heart)?
Yes, I have lied and today I am saved and have eternal life. Praise the Lord.
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I think you are taking this a bit too hard because you don't want to answer the question. Perhaps Rodger is trying to get you to think and reason through your own doctrine
No, he is demanding me to judge where all Muslims go after they die. Are you kidding me?
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Muslim's don't believe in Christ
How do you know what they think in their hearts? Who are you to declare that they do not believe in Christ?
Yes praise the Lord - God has given me peace and joy knowing that I will be saved even though billions of others will be tormented forever. No peace and joy for them, but peace and joy for me. Praise God.
Yes we need to rely on God to show us why it is good that He sends billions of people into eternal torment. Praise God for that
Do you see a problem with the above statements? (try to use reason and logic)
Ok this is an interesting point. Are you saying those who have never heard of Christ, never believed in Christ, but walked the walk of Christ are saved?
That is God's decision, not mine. But, having said that. If I WERE God, and I judged perfectly, then those who did follow Christ, without any knowledge of Christ Jesus, would be saved. It is the prefect law of Love.
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So there is another way to be saved? By being 'Christ-like' without knowing Christ?
It is only through Christ that we are saved. But, having said that,,,we are judged on the perfect Law of Love. If someone lives their lives in this perfect law of love, then why would they not be saved?
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I'm trying to understand what you are saying.
Hopefully, I am clarifying.
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I'm not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with you, but some here would say this is works salvation.
How is living a life of love a works salvation?
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And if this is true, why try to spread the gospel?
Not everyone lives this way. If they did, there would be no occasion to spread the Gospel of Salvation, for that IS the Gospel. Love one another, as your Father in heaven, loves you. I would just do as Paul did, and introduce them to God, and His Son.
How do you know what they think in their hearts? Who are you to declare that they do not believe in Christ?
I'm speaking in general terms here. I'm talking about people who follow Islam, and therefore are not Christian, so by definition they would not believe in Christ, wouldn't you agree.
Forget it, you don't want to acknowledge your own belief system that damns most of the world to endless torment. But hey at least it brings you great joy and peace.
That is God's decision, not mine. But, having said that. If I WERE God, and I judged perfectly, then those who did follow Christ, without any knowledge of Christ Jesus, would be saved. It is the prefect law of Love.
It is only through Christ that we are saved. But, having said that,,,we are judged on the perfect Law of Love. If someone lives their lives in this perfect law of love, then why would they not be saved?
Hopefully, I am clarifying.
How is living a life of love a works salvation?
Not everyone lives this way. If they did, there would be no occasion to spread the Gospel of Salvation, for that IS the Gospel. Love one another, as your Father in heaven, loves you. I would just do as Paul did, and introduce them to God, and His Son.
Thanks for clarifying and I agree with much of what you said. The point about "works salvation" is what I've seen others say (usually ET believers). And admittedly if you say salvation is strictly "belief in Christ only" then this would be "another way".
However I think people don't understand what "believing on Christ" means. IMHO It actually entails "walking the walk of Christ". So it may be possible you walk the walk of Christ and thus believe on Christ without actually having heard the name of Christ. Like in Matt 25... there will be some who say "When did we feed you Lord?" ... perhaps implying they didn't realize they were "walking the walk" - they just did it naturally.
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Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the 2nd death
