Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Then let me ask this, Why is there any mention in scripture about "the lost"? Why did Christ ever issue any warning about being lost? We know that Judas did not believe he was forgiven, guilt drove him to hang himself. If everyone is going to be saved regardless, then why are we still here? Why don't we just nuke the whole planet so we can get to the cleansing already? I know the whole "God's love will save everybody" sounds all nice and rosie but it isn't the reality of the situation. God knows that, and that is why he is working so hard that none should be lost, even though He knows that many will be.
Judas Iscariot will see the mercy of God just like everyone else will:
1 Timothy 2:3-4
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
...
Christ does not say love me or I'll kill you. He came to let us know that sin will kill us, but He can save us all from that fate if we let Him.
We are carnal before we are spiritual. And the carnal mind HATES God. So the mind of the carnal man is not going to LET God do anything. God didn't seek the permission from those that He saves. I'm saying this so that you re-evaluate what you believe in that regard. Otherwise, you would have to expain how a Carnal man who Hates God can come to not hating God. Obviously God has to FORCE the Carnal man to submission during the salvation process.
Quote:
Annihilation is not God's choice, it is the choice of those who refuse God's choice.
If it was then Moses would have taken annihilation for Moses desired to be blotted out of the book of life if God didn't remove the sins of the Isrealites:
Exo 32:31 And Moses turneth back unto Jehovah, and saith, `Oh this people hath sinned a great sin, that they make to themselves a god of gold;
Exo 32:32 and now, if Thou takest away their sin--and if not--blot me, I pray thee, out of Thy book which Thou hast written.'
Really? I thought man hated the laws of God unto His submission. Why would man just hate God for the sake of hating Him? Most do not even know God.
Quote:
So the mind of the carnal man is not going to LET God do anything.
Guess I am different than. I am letting God do the transforming, from the carnal into the spiritual.
Quote:
God didn't seek the permission from those that He saves.
Of course not. That is why He sent His Son.
Quote:
I'm saying this so that you re-evaluate what you believe in that regard.
Actually, his belief is right on the money. Yours is the one that is flawed.
Quote:
Otherwise, you would have to expain how a Carnal man who Hates God can come to not hating God.
Really? First you would have to explain why everyone would just hate God for the sake of hating Him. Even those who fell, like Adam, didn't hate God, and he knew God.
Quote:
Obviously God has to FORCE the Carnal man to submission during the salvation process.
WRONG! There are many who, throughout the salvation process, fell away into apostasy.
Quote:
If it was then Moses would have taken annihilation for Moses desired to be blotted out of the book of life if God didn't remove the sins of the Isrealites:
Exo 32:31 And Moses turneth back unto Jehovah, and saith, `Oh this people hath sinned a great sin, that they make to themselves a god of gold;
Exo 32:32 and now, if Thou takest away their sin--and if not--blot me, I pray thee, out of Thy book which Thou hast written.'
And now you know why the devil contended with the "body" of Moses. But see, Moses was willing to die for his people, not unlike Abraham willing to give up his son, or Jesus laying down his life for those who are His. There is no greater love, right? So, God can be the Judge on how great that love was, and not honor Moses' request for Moses did not know what he was asking.
HotinAZ , i think you are missing what hating God is, by a country mile. If you hate your brother you hate God, if you do not turn the other cheek you hate God, if you love darkness instead of light you hate God, if you murder you hate God . We might not understand that this is the case, but this is true.It's not a literal shaking your fist heaven ward and cursing God and saying you hate him and we will not have you rule over us.
Jesus told them that thought they were Abraham's descendants who hated him they were of their father the devil who was a murderer from the beginning, ask yourself what it was they hated about him,it was not only that they thought he was claiming to be equal with God, it was because of the life on display before their very eyes that exposed and revealed what was truelly in their hearts. So hating the life(the God life) is hating God
Could someone explain to me how the recent exchanges have anything to do with subject title of this thread?
Hell - Eternal Torment or Annihilation...?
Even if the UR contributions on this thread were off-subject, at least they offered a third option for consideration in connection with the subject matter.
IMHO being able to believe in UR is the greatest blessing
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks
HotinAZ,
You are a blessing to this forum, who once dabbled in UR. Your testimony is concrete.
IMHO being able to believe in UR is the greatest blessing of all!
A god who snuffs people out of existence if they don't get a "chance" to trust in Jesus before they die (FPCC)
versus
A God Who eventually will save everyone from everything from which they need to be saved including their stubborn will because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross. (UR)
Personally, I prefer to stay submerged in UR rather that just "dabble" in it.
HotinAZ , i think you are missing what hating God is, by a country mile.
Actually, I would disagree with you by a country mile.
Quote:
If you hate your brother you hate God, if you do not turn the other cheek you hate God, if you love darkness instead of light you hate God, if you murder you hate God .
Jesus showed the Pharisees how far removed they were FROM God by doing those things you have described. And I would agree with Jesus on those points. How can one who loves God, hate his brother? How can one who loves God, murder His creation? How can one who loves God, not turn the other cheek? How can one who loves God, love darkness rather than Light?
See, I understand this. What trettep was saying is that ALL men hate God from the onset. I completely disagree, because not ALL men know God. It was those who 'claimed' to love God, yet did horrible things on God's behalf that so far missed the mark that Jesus set them straight.
Quote:
We might not understand that this is the case, but this is true.
Show me then. Where does it say ALL men hate God?
Quote:
It's not a literal shaking your fist heaven ward and cursing God and saying you hate him and we will not have you rule over us.
If I was to describe this hate trettep speaks of,,,then this would have to be the case.
Quote:
Jesus told them that thought they were Abraham's descendants who hated him they were of their father the devil who was a murderer from the beginning, ask yourself what it was they hated about him,it was not only that they thought he was claiming to be equal with God, it was because of the life on display before their very eyes that exposed and revealed what was truelly in their hearts. So hating the life(the God life) is hating God
They were of their father the devil, because their was NO LOVE in thier hearts for God, period. It was a love for self, and not God. Without love, there is hate. Again, this is not what was said.
Could someone explain to me how the recent exchanges have anything to do with subject title of this thread?
Hell - Eternal Torment or Annihilation...?
Even if the UR contributions on this thread were off-subject, at least they offered a third option for consideration in connection with the subject matter.
The third party was not on topic either, so recent exchanges or not are irrelevant.
This discussion did not IN ANY WAY suggest that people who believe in UR are welcome to come in here to put forth their false doctrines, yet you all did. So, why is the pot calling the kettle black? Could it be that the Truth is coming out that the doctrine you subscibe to is utterly and completely false, and now you are threatened?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hell - Eternal Torment or Annihilation...?
IMHO being able to believe in UR is the greatest blessing
