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Rodgertutt started a scholar/creed frenzy! We can go all day long here....
Quite right sciota. And we would no doubt get bogged down in a stalemate, just like theologians have been doing for hundreds of years.
That is why I choose what I think glorifies God the most.
FIVE POINTS OF VIEW
Arminian: Man's choosing (or lack of choosing) during this life time will result in God raising him from the dead and sustaining him alive in an inescapable state of everlasting suffering forever.
Calvinist: Part of mankind have been chosen by God to be happy forever because they have been unconditionally elected to do so.
The rest of mankind God has chosen to suffer forever for the purpose of eternally demonstrating to everyone how much He hates sin.
Annihilationist: God will raise everyone from the dead, punish them for the bad they have done, then poof them out of existence.
Full Preterists/Covenant Creationism: People who have died as non-Christians have simply ceased to exist.
Universal Reconciliationists: Sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, Jesus will save everyone from suffering and death and from anything else from which they need to be saved too.
Other members will no doubt supply links to arguments in favor of the first four. So then you can take yer pick.
Here are links to arguments in favor of Universal Reconciliation.
I wish that I had been aware of the following writings as a youth. They would have saved me many years of anguish over the subject.
The many dozens of teachers who have lived out their lives and died, believing Christian Biblical Universal Reconciliation include the following.
GOD’S TRUTH FOR TODAY LIBRARY
God's Truth For Today! - Author Index (http://www.gtft.org/Library/index1.html - broken link)
and IN THE GARDEN
In The Garden - Index (http://www.gtft.org/InTheGarden/index.html - broken link)
and Christian Universalism: Universalist Thought Through Church History
Well known Christian church leaders who believed and taught Biblical universalism down through the centuries. Hope Beyond Hell - Church History
also see Christian Universalism: Universalist Thought Through Church History
Includes a separate list of well-known people embracing Christian universalism.
and TWO TREASURE HOUSES OF CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST ARTICLES Christian Universalism Articles by Title Christian Universalism Articles
Last edited by rodgertutt; 11-16-2010 at 10:47 AM..
Reason: spacing
Well if the corrupt teachers of the law added and hate thine enemy, it certainly pulls the rug from under feet of one dear sisters ministry,because hating your enemy is littered throughout the OT, and how she loves quoting those verses at us and to us.
pcamps,
The context of hating your enemy that you say is littered throughout the OT is NOT what Christ is talking about. The various instance you are referring to is enemies of the state, the government, the theocracy in question, by outside forces looking either to enslave the Jews, or outright exterminate them. Christ is talking about things on a more personal level, one to one, family to family, friend to foe and foe to friend. The Samaritan walking down the road. That kind of stuff.
Sciota do you believe when Jesus said bless them that curse you, do good to them that spitefully use you,to love our enemies, turn the other cheek, go the extra mile , was for any other reason than that is how he is by nature ?. if you do i would suggest you check out Luke 6 :36, and in the previous verse he tells us the Most High is also kind to the ungrateful and wicked too.So Jesus makes it absolutely clear why we are called to live by these sayings.
Sciota the bolded part is what i asked you.
I actually agree with you regarding what you said about the enemies of the state,government and theocracy , my point is the sister in question obviously doesn't, but believes it is the individual he hates even to this day.
I actually agree with you regarding what you said about the enemies of the state,government and theocracy , my point is the sister in question obviously doesn't, but believes it is the individual he hates even to this day.
I haven't gathered that from her...verse 35 & 36 of Luke 6 is a heralding of Deut 15:7-10 and Matt 5:48 , among others...and sure God's nature is merciful, it is perfect. But we can't focus on that when we are dealing with multitudes of other scripture that beckon His justice, His anger, His wrath. We have to accept all of Him....His mercy is wrapped up in Jesus Christ...that is the focus, and without Christ, there is no mercy. The wicked have been mercufully awarded life, IF they choose to accept it thankfully. That doctrine is littered throughout the text.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 11-16-2010 at 12:12 PM..
I haven't gathered that from her...verse 35 & 36 of Luke 6 is a heralding of Deut 15:7-10 and Matt 5:48 , among others...and sure God's nature is merciful, it is perfect. But we can't focus on that when we are dealing with multitudes of other scripture that beckon His justice, His anger, His wrath. We have to accept all of Him....His mercy is wrapped up in Jesus Christ...that is the focus, and without Christ, there is no mercy. The wicked have been mercufully awarded life, IF they choose to accept it thankfully. That doctrine is littered throughout the text.
I think we should leave it there then sciota ,i believe he bound us all over to disobedience so to have mercy on us all , and that IF of freewill is not in my vocabulary.No the focus is Jesus Himself , looking unto him the Author and finisher of our faith, but we all,with open face beholding as in a glass the glory (Jesus) of the Lord. Nice talking to ya.
"Annihilationist: God will raise everyone from the dead, punish the non-Christians for the bad things they have done, then poof them out of existence."
Last edited by rodgertutt; 11-16-2010 at 01:37 PM..
Reason: correction
"Annihilationist: God will raise everyone from the dead, punish the non-Christians for the bad things they have done, then poof them out of existence."
And there is the common misconception. God does not punish them or end their life, SIN is what does that. God doesn't warn us to stay away from sin because HE is going to destroy unrepentant sinners. God warns them because He understands that SIN leads to utter destruction. God is not responsible for the second death, SIN is. It was the guilt of our sin that extinguished our Savior's life at Calvary. That is the only reason any of us are spared the second death. Those who choose to reject, what Calvary freely offered, will suffer, not at the hand of God, but because of the innate nature of sin/guilt.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 11-16-2010 at 03:49 PM..
Reason: addition
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Correction for post 421
God is responsible for absolutely everything
