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John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
The issue of covenant life is paramount, as Jesus demonstrates in Matthew 13:38, John 8 (referencing the Pharisees who were "of their father the devil) and as John demonstrates in 1 John 3:8 with his reference to those who are "of the devil." Cain and Abel is where this common biblical pattern originates with the very first offspring of the serpent and offspring of the woman (covenantally speaking). This pattern continues on, in the covenantal line...both of the living, and of the devil. Never is any story considering anyone outside of the covental line, and neither is John in 1 John 3. Abraham's firstborn is also applied to the Judaizers by Paul in Galatians 3 (Ishmael). The second born is the child of promise (Isaac). The story of Jacob and Esau plays the same theme. Esau was born first, yet Jacob received the blessing. You see it again with the blessing of Joseph's two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh - the younger is blessed over the the older. And let's not forget David. He was the LAST son of Jesse, and he was the one annointed to receive the throne. It all begins in the early chapters of Genesis. It's all one big story. The priority of the early chapters of Genesis all the way to Revelation is covenant.
The life and death highlights the covenant life and death.
That which John is precisely addressing, covenantal death.
This is not about some average Joe that never believed.
This is about the average Joe that believes, and does evil to the faith and the body of Christ...backsliders, etc.....look them all up, and compare for yourself.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 11-01-2010 at 06:22 PM..
I am beginning to think you draw a commission from Mr. Knoch
No commission.
I just think the only mistake Knoch probably is making is that he is probably underestimating just how gloriously God will achieve universal transformation.
Do impenitent sinners suffer conscious punishment in body and soul for all eternity, or are they annihilated by God in the second death after suffering a temporary punishment?
The first part of the chapter analyzes the major Biblical texts and arguments used to support the literal view of hell as the place of a literal everlasting punishment of the wicked.
The second chapter considers briefly two alternative interpretations of hell.
1. The metaphorical view - which regards hell as a place where suffering is more mental than physical. The fire is not literal but metaphorical, and the pain is caused more by the sense of separation from God than by physical torments.
2. The Universalist view of hell, which turns hell into a purging, refining fire that ultimately makes it possible for every person to make it into heaven.
The third part of this chapter presents the annihilation view (to which I subscribe) of hell as a place of the ultimate dissolution and annihilation of the unsaved. Some call this "conditional immortality," because our study of the Biblical wholistic view of human nature shows that immortality is not an innate human possession, it is a divine gift granted to believers on condition of their faith response.
God will not resurrect the wicked to immortal life in order to inflict upon them a punishment of eternal pain. Rather the wicked will be resurrected mortal in order to receive their punishment which will result in their ultimate annihilation.
God Bless you.
In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Verna.
NOTE:
...and to any who come here to do nothing more than post an opinion without even reading the study I provided...please, do us all a favor and refrain from doing so. I would like an intelligent conversation ABOUT this study with members who care enough to READ this study.
Mods...please deleat replies that do not discuss the study I provided. Thank you.
This maybe a little insensitive to ask , but how do you guys who believe in ET and Annihilation cope in this life when loved ones pass away and have not confessed Jesus as Savior ? , losing a loved one is bad enough , but to be convinced that their destiny is ET or Annihilation must be pretty tormenting for you . I am sure there are brothers and sisters out their now who are in anguish and in torment because of losing loved ones that you are not sure about their destiny,I pray that He will comfort you , give you peace and absolute assurance that He is the Savior of All.
This maybe a little insensitive to ask , but how do you guys who believe in ET and Annihilation cope in this life when loved ones pass away and have not confessed Jesus as Savior ? , losing a loved one is bad enough , but to be convinced that their destiny is ET or Annihilation must be pretty tormenting for you . I am sure there are brothers and sisters out their now who are in anguish and in torment because of losing loved ones that you are not sure about their destiny,I pray that He will comfort you , give you peace and absolute assurance that He is the Savior of All.
Yes it is sensitive, but that question is asked alot by universalists. As a matter of fact, this, from what I and many others that have researched the UR movement, beieve this is the catalyst as to when a person accepts thre UR doctrine. It is difficult to place their will submissively to what God's will is, and what He said about those who do not consider Christ's efforts and die in their sins. It is because of this question, that many one who considers UR, to form God into what they want of him, not what He set out to do, unchanging. He came to save those who believe in Him. None other.
But to answer your question.....it is fair. We cope because we sacrifice what our counter-family members or loved ones rejected. Stats show that one human being will reject the Gospel at least 5 times in their life. I rejected it 4. It is sad, but we cope because we hope.
Yes it is sensitive, but that question is asked alot by universalists. As a matter of fact, this, from what I and many others that have researched the UR movement, beieve this is the catalyst as to when a person accepts thre UR doctrine. It is difficult to place their will submissively to what God's will is, and what He said about those who do not consider Christ's efforts and die in their sins. It is because of this question, that many one who considers UR, to form God into what they want of him, not what He set out to do, unchanging. He came to save those who believe in Him. None other.
The absolute insanity of this belief is incomprehensible to me. How can any sane person love a being who blackmails them to love Him and His Son OR ELSE???!!??? . . . and exhibits favoritism only to those who stroke His ego and do His wishes. When will we outgrow this idiocy?
Yes it is sensitive, but that question is asked alot by universalists. As a matter of fact, this, from what I and many others that have researched the UR movement, beieve this is the catalyst as to when a person accepts thre UR doctrine. It is difficult to place their will submissively to what God's will is, and what He said about those who do not consider Christ's efforts and die in their sins. It is because of this question, that many one who considers UR, to form God into what they want of him, not what He set out to do, unchanging. He came to save those who believe in Him. None other.
You wrote ...
Quote:
It is difficult to place their will submissively to what God's will is, and what He said about those who do not consider Christ's efforts and die in their sins. It is because of this question, that many one who considers UR, to form God into what they want of him, not what He set out to do, unchanging.
Or conversely, it is difficult for people to listen to what God is telling them in their hearts about who he really is(i.e. the savior of all people), and learn to trust in that and to study the scriptures for themselves instead of trusting on the traditional teachings that they have been programmed to believe about what the scriptures actually teach.
Yes it is sensitive, but that question is asked alot by universalists. As a matter of fact, this, from what I and many others that have researched the UR movement, beieve this is the catalyst as to when a person accepts thre UR doctrine. It is difficult to place their will submissively to what God's will is, and what He said about those who do not consider Christ's efforts and die in their sins. It is because of this question, that many one who considers UR, to form God into what they want of him, not what He set out to do, unchanging. He came to save those who believe in Him. None other.
But to answer your question.....it is fair. We cope because we sacrifice what our counter-family members or loved ones rejected. Stats show that one human being will reject the Gospel at least 5 times in their life. I rejected it 4. It is sad, but we cope because we hope.
Are you saying that those who believe in UR whose faith is in Jesus has their Savior , but happen to believe he's also Savior of All too , are not submitting to His will in not believing in eternal torment ?
I know i said "this maybe a little insensitive", but it was a genuine question , because though i know He is the God of all comfort (which i thought you may have at least said), i still would have a real time of it , accepting my loved ones that don't believe are destined to burn eternally
I also think your answer did not come from the heart but drawn from a defense of what you believe.
I still would like to hear from other believers in ET, in honesty on how they cope with this dreadful thought of lost loved ones destined for ET.
I will also say that the Lord knew the motive of my heart in asking this question .
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Imo all in all is a wonderful book about god
Underestimating what god will achieve
