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Interesting that you ask someone else about my faith, no doubt you will get the truth from others.
You could ignore who asked the question and answer it. I think it would be good to put your story out there. Current JWs do not believe that the elders DF people unless there is good reason and the person is unrepentant. I'm guessing the ones on here still shun you. After reading your posts I can't see how they can label you an unrepentant apostate.
Edit: I would like to hear how being treated that way by your "brothers and sisters" makes you feel. Make them see you as a human being.
You could ignore who asked the question and answer it. I think it would be good to put your story out there. Current JWs do not believe that the elders DF people unless there is good reason and the person is unrepentant. I'm guessing the ones on here still shun you. After reading your posts I can't see how they can label you an unrepentant apostate.
Edit: I would like to hear how being treated that way by your "brothers and sisters" makes you feel. Make them see you as a human being.
It seems that many Jehovah's witnesses place man above God. Of course no different than other faiths, but one should realize that they are individually accountable for their actions. There is protocol to being righteously disfellowshipped, and you stated it correctly, a person has to have committed a serious sin at least once, and has no remorse for it, and refuses to repent. Like you stated, before this happened to me, if someone was disfellowshipped, I too was sure that they had committed a serious sin, and refused to repent. I have never treated them the way I am treated by most however. The Bible, God's word is quite clear on whom you are not to speak to. I will not associate with a disfellowshipped one, but I will always be there to encourage them to return to Jehovah, and assist them in doing so.
To date I have not even been told what sin I committed, that is why the elders chose apostasy, because it is a very vague charge in which by the elders definition we are all guilty of. The sad thing is, apostasy is defined in our publications, and I am not guilty on any of the things listed.I even went to every elder in my congregation and asked them what sin I am committing that keeps me from being reinstated, and none of them had anything. Yet I am still disfellowshipped. The fact that I have been disfellowshipped for over 7 yrs should raise a red flag with someone since I am still attending meetings, and have not changed. I have turned in 15 letters requesting reinstatement, written the society annually keeping them informed of my situation, approached the last three circuit overseers to mediate, and even sent the recordings of the hearings to the society, to no avail. I know that Jehovah is not to blame, but the hypocrisy of the brotherhood, and the lack of love has many times brought me to the brink of leaving the faith. When I get to that low point, Jehovah always does something to reinvigorate me. Keep in mind, historically we have always had corrupt ones among us. The very same thing happened to Jesus.
It hurts me deeply the way I am treated, but I do not return evil for evil, kind for kind. I will say in the small chance that I ever get reinstated, I am going to have an extremely hard time of just overlooking how others have abused me. I have forgiven everyone, but might find it hard to form another close friendship with them. The beauty if it is, we do not have to, I will be loving, there if they have a need, but as far as hanging out with them in association, I think I will abstain.
It seems that many Jehovah's witnesses place man above God.
/snip./
To date I have not even been told what sin I committed, that is why the elders chose apostasy, because it is a very vague charge in which by the elders definition we are all guilty of. The sad thing is, apostasy is defined in our publications, and I am not guilty on any of the things listed.I even went to every elder in my congregation and asked them what sin I am committing that keeps me from being reinstated, and none of them had anything. Yet I am still disfellowshipped. The fact that I have been disfellowshipped for over 7 yrs should raise a red flag with someone since I am still attending meetings, and have not changed. I have turned in 15 letters requesting reinstatement, written the society annually keeping them informed of my situation, approached the last three circuit overseers to mediate, and even sent the recordings of the hearings to the society, to no avail. I know that Jehovah is not to blame, but the hypocrisy of the brotherhood, and the lack of love has many times brought me to the brink of leaving the faith. When I get to that low point, Jehovah always does something to reinvigorate me. Keep in mind, historically we have always had corrupt ones among us. The very same thing happened to Jesus.
It hurts me deeply the way I am treated, but I do not return evil for evil, kind for kind. I will say in the small chance that I ever get reinstated, I am going to have an extremely hard time of just overlooking how others have abused me. I have forgiven everyone, but might find it hard to form another close friendship with them. The beauty if it is, we do not have to, I will be loving, there if they have a need, but as far as hanging out with them in association, I think I will abstain.
It's sad to see the JW org treat you as worthless/disposable HW,
allthewhile Jesus considered you, HW, valuable enough to die for!
It's sad to see the JW org treat you as worthless/disposable HW,
allthewhile Jesus considered you, HW, valuable enough to die for!
Thank you CC, although the ones to be truly pitied are those who abuse the flock, as it is they that have the accounting. I beg Jehovah often not to hold them accountable, but to keep them from doing it to others as well.
It seems that many Jehovah's witnesses place man above God. Of course no different than other faiths, but one should realize that they are individually accountable for their actions. There is protocol to being righteously disfellowshipped, and you stated it correctly, a person has to have committed a serious sin at least once, and has no remorse for it, and refuses to repent. Like you stated, before this happened to me, if someone was disfellowshipped, I too was sure that they had committed a serious sin, and refused to repent. I have never treated them the way I am treated by most however. The Bible, God's word is quite clear on whom you are not to speak to. I will not associate with a disfellowshipped one, but I will always be there to encourage them to return to Jehovah, and assist them in doing so.
To date I have not even been told what sin I committed, that is why the elders chose apostasy, because it is a very vague charge in which by the elders definition we are all guilty of. The sad thing is, apostasy is defined in our publications, and I am not guilty on any of the things listed.I even went to every elder in my congregation and asked them what sin I am committing that keeps me from being reinstated, and none of them had anything. Yet I am still disfellowshipped. The fact that I have been disfellowshipped for over 7 yrs should raise a red flag with someone since I am still attending meetings, and have not changed. I have turned in 15 letters requesting reinstatement, written the society annually keeping them informed of my situation, approached the last three circuit overseers to mediate, and even sent the recordings of the hearings to the society, to no avail. I know that Jehovah is not to blame, but the hypocrisy of the brotherhood, and the lack of love has many times brought me to the brink of leaving the faith. When I get to that low point, Jehovah always does something to reinvigorate me. Keep in mind, historically we have always had corrupt ones among us. The very same thing happened to Jesus.
It hurts me deeply the way I am treated, but I do not return evil for evil, kind for kind. I will say in the small chance that I ever get reinstated, I am going to have an extremely hard time of just overlooking how others have abused me. I have forgiven everyone, but might find it hard to form another close friendship with them. The beauty if it is, we do not have to, I will be loving, there if they have a need, but as far as hanging out with them in association, I think I will abstain.
I'm sorry. You are kind and don't deserve to be treated that way. Truth be known these people would have much to be ashamed of. They can't help it; they know not what they do.
I'm not even a believer anymore but when I was one I looked back at something that happened in my life and I thought God had saved me from a life of servitude. At the time I thought it was Jehovah kicking me out because He knew the truth that I was not worthy. You can decide. I want to point out that I was baptized, like you, when my dedication was to Jehovah, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. If you recall I showed you how the baptism questions were changed in 1985 to replace Holy Spirit with Spirit Directed Organization.
It was June of 1987 and I had left home and lived in an apartment in a new congregation. I didn't ever think I was paradise material but I thought I should stay in to save as many as possible. I was to attend the new group and I was scheduled to for a demonstration lady talk. I had never been there before and only knew a few of the teenagers there. That day someone rear-ended my brother while he was driving my car. I had to deal with that and couldn't go. I thought Jehovah knew I wasn't paradise material and made that happen so I wouldn't go. I thought He had ousted me so I never went back. I slipped through the cracks and eventually started leading a worldly life of: job, marriage, child. No one ever came after me to DF me for celebrating holidays or smoking.
I did end up reading the Bible later and saw something completely different when there wasn't someone telling me what to see. I didn't see the judgment. I didn't see this crazy obsession with sin or salvation the Watchtower has. There was no such thing and righteousness and evil. There was just Love. Love. mercy, and pure acceptance right where I was and as I was.
I ended up basking in that, letting it heal me and then letting go of it. I hope you get to feel that sometime. I think you will because its essence is compassion. I think you have the compassion, when you turn it on yourself it's going to be fantastic. I think you could do that by reading the Bible again with the eyes of a child and suspend what you think those scriptures mean already.
Edit: I noticed you called the shunning evil. I agree but would add that's it's also abuse. You might want to look into the effects of ostracization. You are being suspected to extreme physiological abuse and it's going to cause mental health problems. I'm off to find this one video I watched. It's not anti JW or anything. It's a generic video about the topic.
It's sad to see the JW org treat you as worthless/disposable HW,
allthewhile Jesus considered you, HW, valuable enough to die for!
When they were still having physical meetings he would and be treated as invisible. No one is allowed to talk to a DFed person. They look right past the person and the only emotion showed is tension. As in "oh, a Dfed person; ick" They usually sit in the back of the hall but I'm not sure that's a requirement. They are to come in, sit down, listen, leave. No interaction whatsoever. You're a ghost because you are spiritually dead.
When they were still having physical meetings he would and be treated as invisible. No one is allowed to talk to a DFed person. They look right past the person and the only emotion showed is tension. As in "oh, a Dfed person; ick" They usually sit in the back of the hall but I'm not sure that's a requirement. They are to come in, sit down, listen, leave. No interaction whatsoever. You're a ghost because you are spiritually dead.
When they were still having physical meetings he would and be treated as invisible. No one is allowed to talk to a DFed person. They look right past the person and the only emotion showed is tension. As in "oh, a Dfed person; ick" They usually sit in the back of the hall but I'm not sure that's a requirement. They are to come in, sit down, listen, leave. No interaction whatsoever. You're a ghost because you are spiritually dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Human organizations are full of evil.
Only a fool would want to be a part of that kind of Organization (IMHO).
I'm sorry. You are kind and don't deserve to be treated that way. Truth be known these people would have much to be ashamed of. They can't help it; they know not what they do.
I'm not even a believer anymore but when I was one I looked back at something that happened in my life and I thought God had saved me from a life of servitude. At the time I thought it was Jehovah kicking me out because He knew the truth that I was not worthy. You can decide. I want to point out that I was baptized, like you, when my dedication was to Jehovah, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. If you recall I showed you how the baptism questions were changed in 1985 to replace Holy Spirit with Spirit Directed Organization.
It was June of 1987 and I had left home and lived in an apartment in a new congregation. I didn't ever think I was paradise material but I thought I should stay in to save as many as possible. I was to attend the new group and I was scheduled to for a demonstration lady talk. I had never been there before and only knew a few of the teenagers there. That day someone rear-ended my brother while he was driving my car. I had to deal with that and couldn't go. I thought Jehovah knew I wasn't paradise material and made that happen so I wouldn't go. I thought He had ousted me so I never went back. I slipped through the cracks and eventually started leading a worldly life of: job, marriage, child. No one ever came after me to DF me for celebrating holidays or smoking.
I did end up reading the Bible later and saw something completely different when there wasn't someone telling me what to see. I didn't see the judgment. I didn't see this crazy obsession with sin or salvation the Watchtower has. There was no such thing and righteousness and evil. There was just Love. Love. mercy, and pure acceptance right where I was and as I was.
I ended up basking in that, letting it heal me and then letting go of it. I hope you get to feel that sometime. I think you will because its essence is compassion. I think you have the compassion, when you turn it on yourself it's going to be fantastic. I think you could do that by reading the Bible again with the eyes of a child and suspend what you think those scriptures mean already.
Edit: I noticed you called the shunning evil. I agree but would add that's it's also abuse. You might want to look into the effects of ostracization. You are being suspected to extreme physiological abuse and it's going to cause mental health problems. I'm off to find this one video I watched. It's not anti JW or anything. It's a generic video about the topic.
You seem to have a great heart 8, better than mine I believe. If I thought I was not going to receive salvation, I am very sure I would live my life much differently. I will say however that I have lived that life with having several affairs, and being viscous in my temper, and basically doing what I wanted. I felt when I left the truth, in a word free. But the reality of that lifestyle sets in quickly, and you realize as you are losing your friends that only really respect you out of fear, and actually try to stay away from you, and that your relationship with your wife, your best friend becomes strained, thankfully I realized I had it much better when I was serving Jehovah, so I returned. Like you no one ever pursued me to dis-fellowship me when I actually apostatized. You were serving Jehovah unselfishly, hoping salvation for others even though you questioned whether you were going to make it. I admire you for that, and believe you to be an honest individual. Love for Jehovah and neighbor first even if we don't make it, that is very righteous, and humble I certainly respect you.
At our baptism, with those questions we answer swear to place the organization, nor Jesus above Jehovah. We dedicate our lives to Jehovah. God of course is a God of order, and in these last days He obviously has a large gathering standing on His side. He groups us in unity and provides shepherds to watch over His sheep. You know that, and it is a loving arrangement on His part. He has always had shepherds over the flock from the time we became a nation. And you are no doubt aware that standing in opposition to those shepherds is the same as standing in opposition to Him, unless of course they are not really His shepherds in which we would have no responsibility toward them.
I believe Jehovah exists, and that the Bible identifies the faith beyond any doubt. It is His responsibility to do so, or He cannot legally hold anyone accountable. You know the Bible states very clearly that God is not evil, and with evil things He cannot be tried. He invites everyone, I emphasize it once more everyone, that includes you, He does not try to prevent you from serving Him, it is satan that does that, and no doubt you can see many times in your period of service that he tried to get you to quit. I have had several Bible studies with people, and if you have as well, you have seen how satan tries to pull them away while they are still infants. No Jehovah wants you, no doubt in my mind about that. In fact you are the type He truly desires, unless from our limited talks for each other I do not have an accurate appraisal of you.
We serve Jehovah, simple as that, our dedication is to Him and Him alone Mat 4:10, however we must accept His provisions for salvation as well, and that is all those who He has put in place for us to be cared for through from Jesus down to our local brothers and sisters who care for us. That is scriptural of course. I hope you see an element of truth in this, and truly hope you will return to Jehovah. The convention that is going on now is free for all to view on JW.org. You do not have to attend and it is designed to strengthen your faith, I hope you will consider viewing it. Remember Jehovah is not to blame for us leaving, I always keep that in mind. Yes, I don't like the way they treat me, and I don't want Jehovah to hold it against those who do treat me badly, but my love is not going to show, as I feel sorry for them. They are bringing reproach on Jehovah's name, and as you and I know He does not like that. I have my weak moments where their abuse gets to me, but for 7 yrs now, every time I get down and say what is the use, or like Job's wife told him, curse God and die, not literally of course, but to give up, the point of what was said. I have been able to maintain my integrity. You likely recall that Jehovah promised that no matter what comes before you, that He, yes He personally will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear, He will make the way out for you, and give you the power beyond what is normal to endure. He will not stop our trials, but we realize that they are only temporary even if it is so severe that it results in our death. Is it worth it? I think so, because if God don't exist, or He is a liar, what reason do we have to live? In other words: (Job 14:1) . . .“Man, born of woman, Is short-lived and glutted with agitation.
We are living in momentous times 8, the foretold signs that are being fulfilled right before our eyes should convince you that Jehovah is, and if that is the case, we can be sure as well that He will become the rewarder of those earnestly seeking Him. I sincerely hope that you will weigh these words to you, and consider the contrast of the worlds ways, vs Jehovah's way. Love you, and sincerely hope I can be of help to you. I appreciate your kind and loving words, and would love to call you sis again.
It would be nice if you were correct 54. When I made my conclusion it was pretty brutal because I thought at least Jehovah would set things right one day. The day I died would be the day He came to do that so at least pain and suffering would end. I've had a hard time with the concept of fairness and justice since then and have had to accept it's just not a thing.
You have helped me. You remind me what people inside the organization go through. It's been a very long time since I've felt that twinge of anger at my abusers.
edit: How would you live your life differently if there was no salvation? How would you live your life if it was assured and you need do nothing for it?
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