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Obey me OR ELSE is the epitome of a Godfather, Mike. It is a perfect description of the God of an eternal Hell and damnation. I disagree and reject your belief that we are supposed to be obedient pets in some obedience training program by God. We are God's children and we are to mature and develop our Spirits to be as close to God's as possible while here.
I don't understand where your objection lies.
Our obedience to God can only be for our own good. Our disobedience to God can only result in bad for us.
If our disobedience to God will yield negative consequences for us, then there is nothing wrong with the authority (God) saying "Obey me, or else bad things will happen to you".
The fear of negative consequences for our sinful actions should be a motivator for us to avoid sin, but it shouldn't be the primary motivator. As you say, that's part of maturation and development - working toward our motivation being pure love of God rather than fear of consequences.
Then you do have a problem with Jesus, as He claimed to be the only way to God.
I don't think you get to tell me who I have a problem with. You just mind your own path. As Desmond said on the "Lost" series when he ran into Jack before the crash, "see you in another life, brother."
Our obedience to God can only be for our own good. Our disobedience to God can only result in bad for us.
If our disobedience to God will yield negative consequences for us, then there is nothing wrong with the authority (God) saying "Obey me, or else bad things will happen to you".
The fear of negative consequences for our sinful actions should be a motivator for us to avoid sin, but it shouldn't be the primary motivator. As you say, that's part of maturation and development - working toward our motivation being pure love of God rather than fear of consequences.
His objection lies in the system that promotes it’s own salvation over the salvation of the other, over the lost, over the sinner, the system that forgets and has forgotten its own mission of service, which puts doctrines, goods, knowledge (earthly) above the qualities that is the highest (heavenly)
This is a very hard thing to let go of, and it is a natural urge to protect and defend and to attack and to build and to conquer
Mat 20:25**But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26**But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27**And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Mat 20:28**Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
His objection lies in the system that promotes it’s own salvation over the salvation of the other, over the lost, over the sinner, the system that forgets and has forgotten its own mission of service, which puts doctrines, goods, knowledge (earthly) above the qualities that is the highest (heavenly)
This is a very hard thing to let go of, and it is a natural urge to protect and defend and to attack and to build and to conquer
Mat 20:25**But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26**But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27**And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Mat 20:28**Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
The very CONCEPT of an Eternal Hell of torment is such an abomination to any sane mind, it has no place being used as a threat to obtain obedience by our loving Father God, period!!!! It only serves to promote membership in the institution that uses the threat.
His objection lies in the system that promotes it’s own salvation over the salvation of the other, over the lost, over the sinner, the system that forgets and has forgotten its own mission of service, which puts doctrines, goods, knowledge (earthly) above the qualities that is the highest (heavenly)
This is a very hard thing to let go of, and it is a natural urge to protect and defend and to attack and to build and to conquer
Mat 20:25**But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26**But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27**And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Mat 20:28**Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Hits the nail on the head, Meerkat!!!
"The system" being the Catholic Church?
Though the Church is made up of humans, many of whom are deeply flawed (even evil), I reject the notion that the Church, as a body, does the things you named.
I am the "other", the lost sinner who found hope for eternal salvation in the Church. The Catholic Church is where Jesus Christ is.
In spite of the tendency of humans throughout history to use the Church for the advancement of their own purposes (and they will answer for it), the Church is where God's Grace is made manifest through the Sacraments.
Where else can I be equipped with the spiritual tools I need to gain heaven? Where else can I consume the Body of Christ Himself, apart from which I would have no life?
His objection lies in the system that promotes it’s own salvation over the salvation of the other, over the lost, over the sinner, the system that forgets and has forgotten its own mission of service, which puts doctrines, goods, knowledge (earthly) above the qualities that is the highest (heavenly)
This is a very hard thing to let go of, and it is a natural urge to protect and defend and to attack and to build and to conquer
Mat 20:25**But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26**But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27**And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servanes Christt:
Mat 20:28**Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
These two wascals have never been hurt. They live in their own wee world, oblivious to the call of the Christ to take up your cross and follow Me. One can quote Scriptures, but have you come to your end within the cross?
I don't think you get to tell me who I have a problem with. You just mind your own path. As Desmond said on the "Lost" series when he ran into Jack before the crash, "see you in another life, brother."
Too late, I already told you. What you do with that info is up to you.
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Hits the nail on the head, Meerkat!!!
