Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Thanks for clarifying. No, not everyone has the same calling in the way Paul meant in the 1 Corinthians 7 passage you quoted, BUT everyone is called to follow Christ.
That does NOT mean everyone is called to believe the same "precepts and doctrines of men" about Jesus and God (or even know about them). Anyone who lives their life with a heart that resonates with the agape love of God is following Christ and will receive the cover of His perfect agape love (Grace) whatever they believe or don't believe!!
God and Jesus are not EGOTISTISTICAL and they do not need their egos stroked by recognition as long as we develop our Spirits to resonate with their love as revealed by Jesus. Worship is not and never has been for the benefit of God or Jesus. It is to foster the state of mind in us that brings us closer to them and their love, period. We cannot add to the glory of God or in any way add anything to God by our efforts, but we can increase our connection with God.
Don't take things personally, Mike. It is ANY generic church or institution, although the Catholic Church is a major abuser for its own perpetuation. Any exercise of worldly authority or accumulation and retention of wealth under the auspices of representing God is an abomination, IMO. The God I encountered would never endorse it nor would Jesus of the Cross, since their consciousnesses match, IMO.
I don’t think you are taking into account the different levels
The church and religion has its own place, (and always will) and over the individual churches/synagogues/mosques/temples which are all places of worship, there is the administrative layers which have their own place - not all administration, and system is bad, it becomes bad when it is used in the wrong way, for the wrong purpose
That is the system that is built up and comes into the judgement (the Babylon effect)
It has done in the past and will continue to judge itself
Rom 1:18**For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19**Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20**For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21**Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22**Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23**And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24**Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25**Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
That does NOT mean everyone is called to believe the same "precepts and doctrines of men" about Jesus and God (or even know about them).
We don't consider the dogmatic teachings of the Church to be "precepts and doctrines of men". If the Church teaches "precepts and doctrines of men", it does not do so dogmatically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Anyone who lives their life with a heart that resonates with the agape love of God is following Christ and will receive the cover of His perfect agape love (Grace) whatever they believe or don't believe!!
I can agree with this, but with significant qualifications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
God and Jesus are not EGOTISTISTICAL and they do not need their egos stroked by recognition as long as we develop our Spirits to resonate with their love as revealed by Jesus. Worship is not and never has been for the benefit of God or Jesus. It is to foster the state of mind in us that brings us closer to them and their love, period. We cannot add to the glory of God or in any way add anything to God by our efforts, but we can increase our connection with God.
I agree. However, it is important that we worship God rightly in the way that He ought to be worshipped. When mankind takes it upon Himself to worship God in his own way or through his own efforts, it usually ends up with man as the object of worship rather than God. Nadab and Abihu from Leviticus 10 are a lesson for us in this regard.
"If our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things." (1 John 3:20).
So, my heart may condemn me; but if God knows that I am not condemned, then I am not condemned.
Likewise, my heart may not condemn me (and as the result I will have confidence towards God); nevertheless if God knows that I am condemned, then I am condemned although my heart does not condemn me.
For there are definitely people in this world who have a false assurance of salvation (I am not necessarily saying that this is you, trobesmom).
A play on words?...
Hos 14:3, Asshur shall not save us; we will not ride upon horses: neither will we say any more to the work of our hands, Ye are our gods: for in thee the fatherless findeth mercy.
Might this be saying that assurance of salvation does not necessarily equate to salvation?
Last edited by justbyfaith; 08-17-2021 at 03:48 PM..
Won't it be jolly to be singing with the angels in heaven, knowing that your child is meanwhile screaming in the eternal torments of hell?
Who can honestly say they'd be fine with it?
I am not asking for scriptural references alone, but for the human, emotional and psychological aspects of the situation.
Fine with..... your personal visualization of how it's going to be? No. I'm not fine. But, then again, I don't think your personal visualization represents what will take place. I know you're trying a gambit here, but isn't it just designed to force validation for the predetermined outcome you imagine?
Fine with..... your personal visualization of how it's going to be? No. I'm not fine. But, then again, I don't think your personal visualization represents what will take place. I know you're trying a gambit here, but isn't it just designed to force validation for the predetermined outcome you imagine?
He is not fine with it, his post is to provoke thought, and discussion from those who do visualise it in that way
We don't consider the dogmatic teachings of the Church to be "precepts and doctrines of men". If the Church teaches "precepts and doctrines of men", it does not do so dogmatically.
I can agree with this, but with significant qualifications.
I agree. However, it is important that we worship God rightly in the way that He ought to be worshipped. When mankind takes it upon Himself to worship God in his own way or through his own efforts, it usually ends up with man as the object of worship rather than God. Nadab and Abihu from Leviticus 10 are a lesson for us in this regard.
If the mode of worship produces the states of mind in agape love as revealed by Jesus, it is effective worship. If it produces opposite states of mind, it is not. It is a simple standard and Jesus revealed it unambiguously on the Cross.
If the mode of worship produces the states of mind in agape love as revealed by Jesus, it is effective worship. If it produces opposite states of mind, it is not. It is a simple standard and Jesus revealed it unambiguously on the Cross.
I am certainly thankful to the Lord in my worship for that He took my place on the Cross of Calvary, dying for my sins. I know that I am saved because I believe in it.
I am certainly thankful to the Lord in my worship for that He took my place on the Cross of Calvary, dying for my sins. I know that I am saved because I believe in it.
In other words, you were created, so he could come into the word and give his life for you.
Because you were created with a SIN nature from the beginning that needed to be punished?
"For if you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy,
and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be
concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them."
In other words, you were created, so he could come into the word and give his life for you.
Because you were created with a SIN nature from the beginning that needed to be punished?
"For if you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy,
and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be
concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them."
It's really pretty simple! God created man with free will to choose his own way. If that were not so Adam and Eve would not have been able to sin against God when specifically told not to! They had the choice!
By that free will if man doesn't want a relationship with God, he will not have a relationship with God, and he will suffer the consequences plainly seen in scripture!
It is totally his choice and the judgement for that choice is carried out according to each man's choice! This is the only way God can have man worship and serve Him without making them a robot! He gives choice!
If you don't want anything to do with God, He makes eternal separation possible for you!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If the mode of worship produces the states of mind in agape love as revealed by Jesus, it is effective worship. If it produces opposite states of mind, it is not. It is a simple standard and Jesus revealed it unambiguously on the Cross.
