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Charlie, Charlie, Charlie. NO ONE can have eternal life without Jesus. It is just NOT possible because He is the one who made the permanent connection to God for us. It is the ONLY WAY to God. But it has NOTHING TO DO WITH US!!! Jesus did that and it is finished!!! We can have faith in Jesus because it is TRUE. What is true is true, period! It is not true BECAUSE we have faith in Jesus and not true if we don't!!!
Lord have mercy! Let me set something straight, Mystic! Our Lord being crucified for the sins of the world only made it possible to be saved! Do you understand that?
Eph. 2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."
The free gift comes only by faith, through faith! The faith is not the gift, the salvation is the gift.
"And that not of yourselves" is related to works, the grace is not given by works, but by faith!
Lord have mercy! Let me set something straight, Mystic! Our Lord being crucified for the sins of the world only made it possible to be saved! Do you understand that?
Eph. 2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."
The free gift comes only by faith, through faith! The faith is not the gift, the salvation is the gift.
"And that not of yourselves" is related to works, the grace is not given by works, but by faith!
A free gift means you have nothing to do with getting it, Charlie. It is free without condition. What about that do you NOT understand? You keep wanting to put conditions on it so that you can claim credit for it when it is a free gift, period!!! Since salvation is TRUE and a free gift, there are no conditions, period. But we can have faith in it because it is TRUE. It is not true BECAUSE we have faith in it!!!!
A free gift means you have nothing to do with getting it, Charlie. It is free without condition. What about that do you NOT understand? You keep wanting to put conditions on it so that you can claim credit for it when it is a free gift, period!!! Since salvation is TRUE and a free gift, there are no conditions, period. But we can have faith in it because it is TRUE. It is not true BECAUSE we have faith in it!!!!
You are sadly mistaken.
A gift can be refused. To receive the gift you must take possession of it. The means of taking possession of the free gift of eternal life is through faith. You must believe in Christ in order to take possession of the gift of eternal life as is repeatedly stated in the Bible.
Acts 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, ''Sirs, what must I do to be saved?'' 31] They said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.
John 6:40 ''For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.''
The gift of eternal life is an offer. Here is the offer stated.
Revelation 22:17 ''The Spirit and the bride say, ''Come.'' And let the one who hears say, ''Come.'' And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
And no, you do not know better than Jesus or Paul who both stated what the condition is for eternal life. You must believe that Jesus died for your sins with the result that you trust in Him for eternal life. Period.
And your incessant denial of that fact doesn't change what is clearly stated by Jesus, and by Paul, though you will continue to deny it.
A gift can be refused. To receive the gift you must take possession of it. The means of taking possession of the free gift of eternal life is through faith. You must believe in Christ in order to take possession of the gift of eternal life as is repeatedly stated in the Bible.
Acts 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, ''Sirs, what must I do to be saved?'' 31] They said, ''Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.
John 6:40 ''For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.''
The gift of eternal life is an offer. Here is the offer stated.
Revelation 22:17 ''The Spirit and the bride say, ''Come.'' And let the one who hears say, ''Come.'' And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
And no, you do not know better than Jesus or Paul who both stated what the condition is for eternal life. You must believe that Jesus died for your sins with the result that you trust in Him for eternal life. Period.
And your incessant denial of that fact doesn't change what is clearly stated by Jesus, and by Paul, though you will continue to deny it.
I couldn't have said it any better than that, Michael!
A gift can be refused. To receive the gift you must take possession of it. The means of taking possession of the free gift of eternal life is through faith. You must believe in Christ in order to take possession of the gift of eternal life as is repeatedly stated in the Bible.
How do you take away the salvation of the world from the Saviour of the world by anything you do???? It's not like the gift of a Christmas tie you can throw in the trash. Either He saved us from permanent separation from God or He didn't. If He DID then it is TRUE and your unbelief cannot make it NOT TRUE! You keep wanting credit for your own salvation, which is bogus!!!
How do you take away the salvation of the world from the Saviour of the world by anything you do???? It's not like the gift of a Christmas tie you can throw in the trash. Either He saved us from permanent separation from God or He didn't. If He DID then it is TRUE and your unbelief cannot make it NOT TRUE! You keep wanting credit for your own salvation, which is bogus!!!
As I've said before more than once on this forum, Jesus' redemptive work on the cross doesn't automatically save anyone other than those who die before the so-called age of accountability which would include even an old person who never developed mentally to the point where he could even conceive of God.
What Jesus' redemptive work on the cross did was to pay the penalty for or wages of our sins. Period. That doesn't save anyone. What qualifies a person to have an eternal relationship with God is to have a righteousness which is equal to Gods. And that occurs when a person places his trust in Jesus. At that moment God imputes or credits the perfect righteousness of Jesus to that person and makes him acceptable to God. As Paul said, God is the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus (Rom. 3:22). A man is justified by faith apart from works (Rom. 3:28). To the one who believes in Christ his faith is credited as righteousness (Rom. 4:5). God is the Father of those who believe, that righteousness might be credited to them (Rom. 4:11).
Our sins were just one part of the barrier between man and God. Jesus took care of the sin problem at the cross. But there is still the barrier of man's imperfect righteousness compared with God's perfect righteousness. God can't have fellowship or relationship with man's imperfect righteousness. That part of the barrier is removed only when a person places his faith in Jesus. At the point of faith in Christ God credits Jesus' perfect righteousness to the person who believes in Christ and the final part of the barrier comes down and the believer receives eternal life.
This is what you don't understand and will reject because it flushes your theology down the drain. But Paul is clear on the matter.
It seems to me, if the penalty was paid? Just saying...yet, you have to die, and be reborn.
How much control did you have in your physical birth, did you choose the day and hour?
It seems to me, if the penalty was paid? Just saying...yet, you have to die, and be reborn.
How much control did you have in your physical birth, did you choose the day and hour?
The many times we see those in scripture reject the Words of Christ, turn and walk away, did God choose to turn them away, or did they choose that for themselves?
The many times we see those in scripture reject the Words of Christ, turn and walk away, did God choose to turn them away, or did they choose that for themselves?
What I see people walking away from is the Church, and the ideologies of extreme fundamentalists, not God himself.
What I see people walking away from is the Church, and the ideologies of extreme fundamentalists, not God himself.
Well I knew you didn't see anything in scripture that's not of your liking!
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