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Do you believe there could be or is such a thing as a "false" church or churches?
I know your question was not directed to me, but I’d like to answer, if I may.
There are many false churches! Much more false than true. It’s as Jesus said in Matthew 7:14. “
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
You see, God looks at each congregation individually, not necessarily as a whole. For example, I worship with a congregation whose name on the sign out front is “church of Christ.” However, not all churches of Christ are created equal. Some I wouldn’t set foot in. They are filled with false teachings. The Scriptures are the standard for truth. Any congregation, regardless what it calls itself, is a false church if it doesn’t abide by the standards found in God’s word. No congregation on earth has the authority to add to or take away from what God has prescribed for His church.
I know your question was not directed to me, but I’d like to answer, if I may.
There are many false churches! Much more false than true. It’s as Jesus said in Matthew 7:14. “
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
You see, God looks at each congregation individually, not necessarily as a whole. For example, I worship with a congregation whose name on the sign out front is “church of Christ.” However, not all churches of Christ are created equal. Some I wouldn’t set foot in. They are filled with false teachings. The Scriptures are the standard for truth. Any congregation, regardless what it calls itself, is a false church if it doesn’t abide by the standards found in God’s word. No congregation on earth has the authority to add to or take away from what God has prescribed for His church.
Your thoughts?
I agree that there are many false churches. The criteria are objective. We know from the Nicene Creed that there are four marks by which we can tell the True Church from false churches.
The Church is One - It is the united family of God; indivisible just as the Holy Trinity is indivisible; just as Christ's two natures are indivisible
The Church is Holy - It is the Bride of Christ; Holy because it lives in union with Christ who is Holy
The Church is Catholic - It is universal, not restricted to any people or nation; and its salvific mission is to the entire human race
The Church is Apostolic - Its unchanging Tradition and its hierarchy trace directly back to the Apostles in an unbroken line
If a church fails to meet any of these criteria, then it cannot rightly be said to be a True Church.
I know your question was not directed to me, but I’d like to answer, if I may.
There are many false churches! Much more false than true. It’s as Jesus said in Matthew 7:14. “
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
You see, God looks at each congregation individually, not necessarily as a whole. For example, I worship with a congregation whose name on the sign out front is “church of Christ.” However, not all churches of Christ are created equal. Some I wouldn’t set foot in. They are filled with false teachings. The Scriptures are the standard for truth. Any congregation, regardless what it calls itself, is a false church if it doesn’t abide by the standards found in God’s word. No congregation on earth has the authority to add to or take away from what God has prescribed for His church.
Your thoughts?
The bold is the lie from the pit of Satan that has corrupted Christ's Gospel of love and reconciliation with the ignorance, vanity, and hubris of men!! Jesus Christ is the ONE AND ONLY standard of Truth, the Way, and the Life, period. The scriptures are full of human ignorance, vanity, and hubris that must be read with the "mind of Christ" to filter out all the corruptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
I agree that there are many false churches. The criteria are objective. We know from the Nicene Creed that there are four marks by which we can tell the True Church from false churches.
The Church is One - It is the united family of God; indivisible just as the Holy Trinity is indivisible; just as Christ's two natures are indivisible
The Church is Holy - It is the Bride of Christ; Holy because it lives in union with Christ who is Holy
The Church is Catholic - It is universal, not restricted to any people or nation; and its salvific mission is to the entire human race
The Church is Apostolic - Its unchanging Tradition and its hierarchy trace directly back to the Apostles in an unbroken line
If a church fails to meet any of these criteria, then it cannot rightly be said to be a True Church.
Self-serving doctrine from the flawed, self-selected, and self-professed presumptuous successors of the original apostles.
I agree that there are many false churches. The criteria are objective. We know from the Nicene Creed that there are four marks by which we can tell the True Church from false churches.
The Church is One - It is the united family of God; indivisible just as the Holy Trinity is indivisible; just as Christ's two natures are indivisible
The Church is Holy - It is the Bride of Christ; Holy because it lives in union with Christ who is Holy
The Church is Catholic - It is universal, not restricted to any people or nation; and its salvific mission is to the entire human race
The Church is Apostolic - Its unchanging Tradition and its hierarchy trace directly back to the Apostles in an unbroken line
If a church fails to meet any of these criteria, then it cannot rightly be said to be a True Church.
The Church is catholic with a lowercase "c". I don't why Catholics instead on using an uppercase "c" and assert that Jesus identified His church as Catholic.
Catholic with an uppercase "C" and catholic with lowercase "c" have different meanings.
I would respectfully challenge you to look at the Church through the perspective of a non-Catholic. A lot of people are blinded by the beliefs of their own denomination. Your mind will open up once you get outside of your box and look around.
EscAlaMike is a convert who grew up looking at things through the Protestant faith.
The Church is catholic with a lowercase "c". I don't why Catholics instead on using an uppercase "c" and assert that Jesus identified His church as Catholic.
Catholic with an uppercase "C" and catholic with lowercase "c" have different meanings.
The Church in this day and age is both catholic and Catholic. We are forced to use the capital-C in order to distinguish the True Church from the many sects who claim to be part of the "church catholic", but in fact are not.
The bold is the lie from the pit of Satan that has corrupted Christ's Gospel of love and reconciliation with the ignorance, vanity, and hubris of men!! Jesus Christ is the ONE AND ONLY standard of Truth, the Way, and the Life, period. The scriptures are full of human ignorance, vanity, and hubris that must be read with the "mind of Christ" to filter out all the corruptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
I agree that there are many false churches. The criteria are objective. We know from the Nicene Creed that there are four marks by which we can tell the True Church from false churches.
The Church is One - It is the united family of God; indivisible just as the Holy Trinity is indivisible; just as Christ's two natures are indivisible
The Church is Holy - It is the Bride of Christ; Holy because it lives in union with Christ who is Holy
The Church is Catholic - It is universal, not restricted to any people or nation; and its salvific mission is to the entire human race
The Church is Apostolic - Its unchanging Tradition and its hierarchy trace directly back to the Apostles in an unbroken line
If a church fails to meet any of these criteria, then it cannot rightly be said to be a True Church.
The bold in Mike's post describes the followers of the teachings of JESUS CHRIST, NOT the self-serving doctrine from the flawed, self-selected, and self-professed presumptuous successors of the original apostles in ANY Church created by men!
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
The Church in this day and age is both catholic and Catholic. We are forced to use the capital-C in order to distinguish the True Church from the many sects who claim to be part of the "church catholic", but in fact are not.
Jesus did NOT establish a religion or a Church of any kind. He showed us who God really is and that what He wants from us is agape love, period. Gathering together is to remember Him and what He taught which is what evokes the Holy Spirit of agape within us. Rituals, feasts, rules, sacraments, and the many trappings of religion are NOT what God wants from us. Any and all such so-called "worship" is not for God.
Gathering together is supposed to aid us in getting our Spirits closer to God's Holy Spirit! That is the symbolic meaning of Pentecost - evoking the Holy Spirit within us. It is our state of mind, NOT some magical or supernatural event. Our primitive ancestors did not have the nuanced and sophisticated minds to understand that. It was all supernatural and magical to them.
EscAlaMike is a convert who grew up looking at things through the Protestant faith.
Protestants are a large group of people with different beliefs. Gotta be specific on which denomination did Mike grew up in. Did he stay in one denomination then convert to Catholicism? Or did he go into different denominations before switching over? What was the reason behind the switching over?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
The Church in this day and age is both catholic and Catholic. We are forced to use the capital-C in order to distinguish the True Church from the many sects who claim to be part of the "church catholic", but in fact are not.
I've challenged your belief that the Catholic Church is the "True" Church but you haven't given me any response back. What makes it the "True" church? Who said it is the true church? Every church believes they are the truth. What convinces you that the Catholic church is the true church?
I agree that there are many false churches. The criteria are objective. We know from the Nicene Creed that there are four marks by which we can tell the True Church from false churches.
The Church is One - It is the united family of God; indivisible just as the Holy Trinity is indivisible; just as Christ's two natures are indivisible
The Church is Holy - It is the Bride of Christ; Holy because it lives in union with Christ who is Holy
The Church is Catholic - It is universal, not restricted to any people or nation; and its salvific mission is to the entire human race
The Church is Apostolic - Its unchanging Tradition and its hierarchy trace directly back to the Apostles in an unbroken line
If a church fails to meet any of these criteria, then it cannot rightly be said to be a True Church.
A true church belonging to Christ is measured by the word of God, and not by the criteria of men.
The church which sprinkles or pours water on babies and little children cannot be the church which the Lord built. Only those old enough to hear, believe, repent, and confess Christ can be baptized
A Church that takes it upon themselves to remove the cup from the Supper of the Lord is not a true church belonging to Christ.
A church that appoints a bishop over multiple congregations and does not abide by the Lord’s prescription of having a plurality of elders shepherding each congregation is not a true church of Christ.
There is zero support for papal existence in Scripture. Church hierarchy was unheard of before the fifth century.
The only criteria a congregation must meet is that which has been set forth by Jesus Christ and His Apostles in the New Testament.
The Catholic organization would not be recognized by first century Christian’s as the church belonging to Christ.
A true church belonging to Christ is measured by the word of God, and not by the criteria of men.
The church which sprinkles or pours water on babies and little children cannot be the church which the Lord built. Only those old enough to hear, believe, repent, and confess Christ can be baptized
A Church that takes it upon themselves to remove the cup from the Supper of the Lord is not a true church belonging to Christ.
A church that appoints a bishop over multiple congregations and does not abide by the Lord’s prescription of having a plurality of elders shepherding each congregation is not a true church of Christ.
There is zero support for papal existence in Scripture. Church hierarchy was unheard of before the fifth century.
The only criteria a congregation must meet is that which has been set forth by Jesus Christ and His Apostles in the New Testament.
The Catholic organization would not be recognized by first century Christian’s as the church belonging to Christ.
Just to add on to it and I'm curious to see what Mike's response would be....
The use of statues is something scriptures forbid. Praying to statues is forbidden. Catholics try to sugarcoat by saying they adore, not worship, the statues and that the statues serve as a guide to Jesus but again, this is against the scriptures.
Calling religious person "Father" is also against scriptures.
Not sharing wine during communion is also against scriptures. Both the bread AND the wine as His body and blood are shared by Jesus to his disciples.
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