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Any teaching or practice of the RCC that is NOT found in God’s word is based on the teachings of men, and not given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, it is false teaching.
The list of documents/books that are and are not God's Word is not found in God's Word.
Therefore, by your definition, the composition/canon of God's Word is itself a "teaching of men" and therefore false.
It did not become necessary to label Christ's Church as "Catholic" until false sects began to emerge using the name "church". It then became imperative to distinguish false "churches" from the True Church. The True Church has been labeled "Catholic" ever since.
That is only one meaning of the word.
I am a convert to Catholicism, so I *lived* that perspective my whole life prior to my conversion.
What is the difference?
I would have to respectfully disagree that the Catholic church is the true church. But I will agree that churches around the world preach things that are not aligned to the bible and that includes both the Catholic faith and Protestant denominations.
I would respectfully challenge you to look at the Church through the perspective of a non-Catholic. A lot of people are blinded by the beliefs of their own denomination. Your mind will open up once you get outside of your box and look around.
I would have to respectfully disagree that the Catholic church is the true church. But I will agree that churches around the world preach things that are not aligned to the bible and that includes both the Catholic faith and Protestant denominations.
I would respectfully challenge you to look at the Church through the perspective of a non-Catholic. A lot of people are blinded by the beliefs of their own denomination. Your mind will open up once you get outside of your box and look around.
This is the nature of organised religion
The structures and denominations of Organisational religion has their place/part by design and they are necessary here on earth and it is not wrong to be a part of them as their place was and is as parents, keepers, teachers, guides,
The problem is when ‘they’ go outside their place as a parent, keeper, teacher, guide and think more of themselves than they ought to, that is when ‘reformation’ was and is needed and necessary
But it is also the same for the ‘free’ who believe that there was and is no need for the parents, keepers, teachers, guides
Galatians 3 and 5 relate to each other and are about the ‘Christian’ inheritance
Where the 2 parts are to recognise their relationship to each other as ‘brothers’ not as enemies or adversaries
Gal 3:15**Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
Gal 3:16**Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:22**But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23**But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24**Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25**But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26**For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27**For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28**There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29**And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal 5:16**This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17**For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18**But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22**But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23**Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24**And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25**If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26**Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
The structures and denominations of Organisational religion has their place/part by design and they are necessary here on earth and it is not wrong to be a part of them as their place was and is as parents, keepers, teachers, guides,
The problem is when ‘they’ go outside their place as a parent, keeper, teacher, guide and think more of themselves than they ought to, that is when ‘reformation’ was and is needed and necessary
But it is also the same for the ‘free’ who believe that there was and is no need for the parents, keepers, teachers, guides
Galatians 3 and 5 relate to each other and are about the ‘Christian’ inheritance
Where the 2 parts are to recognise their relationship to each other as ‘brothers’ not as enemies or adversaries
Gal 3:15**Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
Gal 3:16**Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:22**But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23**But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24**Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25**But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26**For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27**For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28**There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29**And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal 5:16**This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17**For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18**But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22**But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23**Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24**And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25**If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26**Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Agreed and very good points. If being part of a denomination or religious group makes you a happy and better person, then great.
It becomes wrong when a denomination starts creating rules and asserts that what they are doing is right and correct and everyone else is wrong. As the saying goes: the more often you do something and the more often you hear something, the more you get used to it and it starts to become the truth.
Most denominations have traditions that have lasted for years and if they tried to change it, I bet there would be protests. People often become blinded by the beliefs of their denomination and forget to go back to the bible and reassess their beliefs.
Agreed and very good points. If being part of a denomination or religious group makes you a happy and better person, then great.
It becomes wrong when a denomination starts creating rules and asserts that what they are doing is right and correct and everyone else is wrong. As the saying goes: the more often you do something and the more often you hear something, the more you get used to it and it starts to become the truth.
Most denominations have traditions that have lasted for years and if they tried to change it, I bet there would be protests. People often become blinded by the beliefs of their denomination and forget to go back to the bible and reassess their beliefs.
But even then if they keep it within their own organisation and assembly what harm does it do to those who are not in that organisation or assembly?
The ritualistic, denominational, has always been about gathering ‘people’ together into one place, and being of one ‘mind’
1Co 15:21**For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22**For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23**But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24**Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25**For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26**The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27**For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28**And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
G5001 (Strong)
τάγμα
tagma
tag'-mah
From G5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), that is, (figuratively) a series or succession: - order.
The RCC is not wrong in having their own religious system with its doctrines, traditions, rituals
Nor is the Methodist, Baptist, LDS, COC, JW, or the Jew, Muslim, Buddhist either - that is all regional and relevant to time
Act 2:15**For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16**But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17**And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18**And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:5**And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6**Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7**And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8**And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9**Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10**Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11**Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12**And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13**Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
What is wrong is to force it on another against their own will
But even then if they keep it within their own organisation and assembly what harm does it do to those who are not in that organisation or assembly?
The ritualistic, denominational, has always been about gathering ‘people’ together into one place, and being of one ‘mind’
1Co 15:21**For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22**For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23**But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24**Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25**For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26**The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27**For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28**And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
G5001 (Strong)
τάγμα
tagma
tag'-mah
From G5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), that is, (figuratively) a series or succession: - order.
The RCC is not wrong in having their own religious system with its doctrines, traditions, rituals
Nor is the Methodist, Baptist, LDS, COC, JW, or the Jew, Muslim, Buddhist either - that is all regional and relevant to time
Act 2:15**For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16**But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17**And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18**And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:5**And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6**Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7**And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8**And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9**Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10**Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11**Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12**And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13**Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
What is wrong is to force it on another against their own will
That's fair. I guess if it's not affecting other people in a bad way, it's ok then right?
I think it becomes a challenge when people from different denominations come together and come to disagreements on theology. I've seen churches from different denominations assert they are the "true" church. The Catholic church does this a lot. Iglesia ni Cristo does this as well.
That's fair. I guess if it's not affecting other people in a bad way, it's ok then right?
I think it becomes a challenge when people from different denominations come together and come to disagreements on theology. I've seen churches from different denominations assert they are the "true" church. The Catholic church does this a lot. Iglesia ni Cristo does this as well.
Do you believe there could be or is such a thing as a "false" church or churches?
That's fair. I guess if it's not affecting other people in a bad way, it's ok then right?
I think it becomes a challenge when people from different denominations come together and come to disagreements on theology. I've seen churches from different denominations assert they are the "true" church. The Catholic church does this a lot. Iglesia ni Cristo does this as well.
I think so (but that is just my personal opinion/belief)
I was brought up first in a Presbyterian, then a Pentecostal church - that was from birth to teens in the 1970’s
For me there was a dissonance that happened at that time regarding the ritualistic and doctrinal things and my personal belief and I had to make a personal choice to resolve that dissonance, and that was to leave the organisational, I always retained the belief in a higher power, God though
Do you believe there could be or is such a thing as a "false" church or churches?
There are false sheep as the bible says. I don't think the bible says anything about a false church. I don't think churches themselves are a concern. It is the people who run them. A church whose leaders preach killing people, for example, would be a church run by bad people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2
I think so (but that is just my personal opinion/belief)
I was brought up first in a Presbyterian, then a Pentecostal church - that was from birth to teens in the 1970’s
For me there was a dissonance that happened at that time regarding the ritualistic and doctrinal things and my personal belief and I had to make a personal choice to resolve that dissonance, and that was to leave the organisational, I always retained the belief in a higher power, God though
I was baptized Methodist, then raised in a Lutheran (ELCA) church. Wasn't by choice though. I went to whatever church my dad made me go to. He was and still is very much anti-Catholic. The only exposure I had to the Catholic church was when my mom, who is a Catholic, took me to some Catholic services. As I grew older, I started to learn more and more about both the Catholic faith, the Lutheran faith, and the bible and connecting the puzzle pieces together. I noticed the division between the Lutheran faith and Catholicism, which I felt was unnecessary and against God and started to disassociate myself from the denomination.
There are false sheep as the bible says. I don't think the bible says anything about a false church. I don't think churches themselves are a concern. It is the people who run them. A church whose leaders preach killing people, for example, would be a church run by bad people.
I was baptized Methodist, then raised in a Lutheran (ELCA) church. Wasn't by choice though. I went to whatever church my dad made me go to. He was and still is very much anti-Catholic. The only exposure I had to the Catholic church was when my mom, who is a Catholic, took me to some Catholic services. As I grew older, I started to learn more and more about both the Catholic faith, the Lutheran faith, and the bible and connecting the puzzle pieces together. I noticed the division between the Lutheran faith and Catholicism, which I felt was unnecessary and against God and started to disassociate myself from the denomination.
But anyways, enough about me. Back to the topic
What we all have been through is relevant to the topic though (it’s not just about you and me and not just personally though ….. but all of us and our different affiliations and relationships and perspectives)
mike has gone from Protestantism to Catholicism
We have gone from some form of ‘Protestantism’ to freedom, but in the greater scheme that is immaterial
I agree with you the church itself is not the problem - The church is feminine by nature and she births children
The church has the male over her by design and from the beginning there was disunity prophecied because of the separate functions of the male/female and who they listened to
God ….Adam/eve … serpent
Last edited by Meerkat2; 12-22-2022 at 01:52 PM..
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