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Correct! It was not done! Not on a large scale anyway.
However, it can be done, and I believe that throughout history there have been small groups of people who have successfully restored Christianity to the way Jesus intended it to be.
It can be done by doing what the Holy Spirit directed in the New Testament. He tells us what we must do to be saved. He tells us how to worship. He tells us how to live a life pleasing to God. Do these things, and you will restore Christianity (at least on a small scale) the way God intended it to be. It’s simple, really. Just get back to the Bible!
It’s kind of like finding a two-thousand year old cake recipe. If you follow it, using the same ingredients, temperature and measurements, you will end up with the same cake that was baked long ago.
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Originally Posted by mtolympus
I like your analogy, but who can put all the right ingredients together?
What is the right flavor? Is there one cake with three flavors? Or was it three cakes with one flavor? How may eggs? Are these eggs literal eggs or figurative eggs? How much flour, sugar and salt. Must the flour be qluten free flour? Can anyone bake the cake? Or must the baker have proper authority? Is it totally immersed in frosting or is sprinkling ok?
Who has the 2000 year old recipe?
Except that the bible is neither a 'cookbook' of heavenly bread, nor an instruction manual on how to organize a (Christ's) church - as these things both were already in existence prior to any NT writing; just read any of the NT letters, they obviously show that those to whom they are written have already been taught the faith and are being sent a reminder or a clarification of some detail!
Well brings up another question: did Jesus's followers write things down while He was still alive? I find it hard to believe that they started writing 40 years after the death of Jesus and they wrote with such detail.
Yeah. I don't buy that, either.
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This makes it very important to know how the bible was created. Were the books of the bible written during the life of Jesus and only "published" years after His death?
That's the same possibility I've put forth here before, on CD, recently, in fact.
There's plenty of evidence that various forms of shorthand were developed and used before the days of Christ. It became necessary for some people to learn to write quickly when for example, a king's speech needed to be recorded. For this purpose, some people used a sort of stylus to make impressions or 'scratch' letters and/or symbols onto wax tablets. They weren't too cumbersome to transport (depending on the size of course and how many), plus, they were reusable. Just melt the wax, smooth it out, and start all over again!
It has been widely accepted by scholars and historians that Jesus and his disciples spoke Aramaic. It's also believed that Jesus and his disciples knew Koine Greek and Hebrew. It's been suggested that the papyrus Koine Greek documents we have are not the originals.
I tend to agree.
Gotta say, it's fascinating stuff, to say the least!
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That depends on how you read the bible. Are you against the bible? Do you dislike the writings of Jesus's disciples? Do you think the bible is filled with false stories?
Since the Male Headship thread has drifted off onto the topic of Church history and apostolic succession and there seems to be some interest in the topic, I've started a new thread to address it.
We can start with these posts:
and
No trinity based religion follows the apostles teachings. They served the Abrahamic God= a single being God= YHWH(Jehovah) as did Jesus and every bible writer, and every Israelite when they served the true God-these are undeniable facts of true God worship history.
Catholicism's own encyclopedia says the apostolic Fathers knew nothing of God being a trinity)---Why? Because he isnt one.
Just to add on to it and I'm curious to see what Mike's response would be....
The use of statues is something scriptures forbid. Praying to statues is forbidden. Catholics try to sugarcoat by saying they adore, not worship, the statues and that the statues serve as a guide to Jesus but again, this is against the scriptures.
Calling religious person "Father" is also against scriptures.
Not sharing wine during communion is also against scriptures. Both the bread AND the wine as His body and blood are shared by Jesus to his disciples.
Disillusioned Roman Catholic here:
You don’t know much about the Roman Catholic Church.
No Catholic (that I know of) prays to, worships or venerates a statue. That’s utterly ridiculous. Statues are representations (think visual aid). Compare to baby Jesus in a nativity scene. Nobody prays to the statue of baby Jesus either. Saints are venerated (respected) not worshipped.
GO TO A MASS and come back and swear that the wine is not shared along with the bread.
WHERE does the New Testament say that it is forbidden to call someone father? They have no trouble calling each other brother.
Don’t quote from the Old Testament because that isn’t the Christians’ book. The Old Testament is about the Jews by Jews and for the Jews.
If it weren’t for the Roman Catholic Church and the Council of Nicaea (325AD) you wouldn’t have your precious scriptures. Paul didn’t write the KJV.
Jesus was born a Jew and died as a Torah-observant Jew. The one who turned Jesus into Christ was Paul, another Jew. The Torah wasn’t good enough for Paul so he wrote most of the New Testament. Paul also said that Jesus would return in his lifetime. Paul has been dead for almost 2000 yrs and there’s no sight of Christ.
The Torah and New Testament weren’t good enough for Mohammed so he came up with the Koran.
The King James Version (KJV) of the Bible wasn’t good enough for Joseph Smith, so he came up with the Book of Mormon.
You don’t know much about the Roman Catholic Church.
No Catholic (that I know of) prays to, worships or venerates a statue. That’s utterly ridiculous. Statues are representations (think visual aid). Compare to baby Jesus in a nativity scene. Nobody prays to the statue of baby Jesus either. Saints are venerated (respected) not worshipped.
GO TO A MASS and come back and swear that the wine is not shared along with the bread.
WHERE does the New Testament say that it is forbidden to call someone father? They have no trouble calling each other brother.
Don’t quote from the Old Testament because that isn’t the Christians’ book. The Old Testament is about the Jews by Jews and for the Jews.
If it weren’t for the Roman Catholic Church and the Council of Nicaea (325AD) you wouldn’t have your precious scriptures. Paul didn’t write the KJV.
Jesus was born a Jew and died as a Torah-observant Jew. The one who turned Jesus into Christ was Paul, another Jew. The Torah wasn’t good enough for Paul so he wrote most of the New Testament. Paul also said that Jesus would return in his lifetime. Paul has been dead for almost 2000 yrs and there’s no sight of Christ.
The Torah and New Testament weren’t good enough for Mohammed so he came up with the Koran.
The King James Version (KJV) of the Bible wasn’t good enough for Joseph Smith, so he came up with the Book of Mormon.
Can you see the trend yet?
I'm Roman Catholic too, but I think you're being a bit too harsh on compwiz's post.
I get both sides. I don't necessarily agree with the conclusions, but I get the questions.
You're right. This whole idea of Catholics "praying to statues" is not the truth. Just the same as I see a picture of my daughter in my wallet, and say, "Sweetie, I wish I was with you right now" doesn't mean I'm 'worshipping' her picture. I've said before that some people go to bed at night, get on their knees at their bed and pray...
But are they 'worshipping' the bed? The blankets? The sheets and pillows?
You don’t know much about the Roman Catholic Church.
No Catholic (that I know of) prays to, worships or venerates a statue. That’s utterly ridiculous. Statues are representations (think visual aid). Compare to baby Jesus in a nativity scene. Nobody prays to the statue of baby Jesus either. Saints are venerated (respected) not worshipped.
GO TO A MASS and come back and swear that the wine is not shared along with the bread.
WHERE does the New Testament say that it is forbidden to call someone father? They have no trouble calling each other brother.
Don’t quote from the Old Testament because that isn’t the Christians’ book. The Old Testament is about the Jews by Jews and for the Jews.
If it weren’t for the Roman Catholic Church and the Council of Nicaea (325AD) you wouldn’t have your precious scriptures. Paul didn’t write the KJV.
Jesus was born a Jew and died as a Torah-observant Jew. The one who turned Jesus into Christ was Paul, another Jew. The Torah wasn’t good enough for Paul so he wrote most of the New Testament. Paul also said that Jesus would return in his lifetime. Paul has been dead for almost 2000 yrs and there’s no sight of Christ.
The Torah and New Testament weren’t good enough for Mohammed so he came up with the Koran.
The King James Version (KJV) of the Bible wasn’t good enough for Joseph Smith, so he came up with the Book of Mormon.
Can you see the trend yet?
I'm enjoying watching the argument from the sidelines, but I do have to throw in the obvious here in response to the bolded:
In Matthew 23:9 Jesus says, "And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."
I'm Roman Catholic too, but I think you're being a bit too harsh on compwiz's post.
I get both sides. I don't necessarily agree with the conclusions, but I get the questions.
You're right. This whole idea of Catholics "praying to statues" is not the truth. Just the same as I see a picture of my daughter in my wallet, and say, "Sweetie, I wish I was with you right now" doesn't mean I'm 'worshipping' her picture. I've said before that some people go to bed at night, get on their knees at their bed and pray...
But are they 'worshipping' the bed? The blankets? The sheets and pillows?
These people should just ... give it a rest...
You’re right.
I’m harsh to non Catholics criticizing the RCC. To me, they need to experience Catholicism in order to criticize. I also believe the RCC should have never broken bread with the Protestants. The so called ecumenism and Second Vatican Council accelerated the church’s decline. You can’t “join” people who claim the pope is the anti-christ, Catholics aren’t real Christians, etc. II Vatican reformed the wrong things and left many others unreformed.
I have absolutely no problem with two disenchanted Catholics talking trash about the church. My poor father lost his faith when he heard about the paedophilia. He was truly hurt and his pain hurt me. I cannot bring myself to forgive the church for that. As for me, I stopped believing the RCC decades ago. I gave a sound moral compass to my children but no Catholicism.
I’m harsh to non Catholics criticizing the RCC. To me, they need to experience Catholicism in order to criticize. I also believe the RCC should have never broken bread with the Protestants. The so called ecumenism and Second Vatican Council accelerated the church’s decline. You can’t “join” people who claim the pope is the anti-christ, Catholics aren’t real Christians, etc. II Vatican reformed the wrong things and left many others unreformed.
I have absolutely no problem with two disenchanted Catholics talking trash about the church. My poor father lost his faith when he heard about the paedophilia. He was truly hurt and his pain hurt me. I cannot bring myself to forgive the church for that. As for me, I stopped believing the RCC decades ago. I gave a sound moral compass to my children but no Catholicism.
Oh well. They did it to themselves.
I go to Catholic mass with my wife who is Catholic every Sunday. Yes, I have criticisms against the Catholic Church and I do think they go against scripture in some ways. I plan on reading more on the history of the Catholic Church so I can see the reasons why the Catholic church does the things that it does.
It's so interesting when I see Protestants criticizing the Catholic Church and vice versa. Even more interesting to see Protestants-turned-Catholics defending the Catholic faith and Catholics-turned-Protestants saying why they disagree against the Catholic Church. Lots of different perspectives and beliefs.
Yeah. The Bible is full of contradictions and a lot gets lost in translation. You take the Aramaic, the Hebrew, the Greek, the Latin and try to mesh all that into something that makes sense in English and you’re bound to have some hiccups.
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Happy to hear that! Then the mystery has been solved and everyone agrees?
