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I was pulled into this thread from another thread.
My personal belief: I do not believe that the Catholic Church is the "real" and "true" church. There are no scriptures in the bible that states this. Only Catholic Church leaders state this. The church that was built and lead by Peter was a church requested by Jesus but had no denomination associated with it. It was simply a church. Not Catholic, not Lutheran, not Baptist, etc.
... I do not believe that the Catholic Church is the "real" and "true" church. There are no scriptures in the bible that states this. Only Catholic Church leaders state this. The church that was built and lead by Peter was a church requested by Jesus but had no denomination associated with it. It was simply a church. Not Catholic, not Lutheran, not Baptist, etc.
You summed it up well. Thanks
What Jesus set up was perfect in its simplicity.
What man can't resist is complicating matters, creating divisions, walls, groups, categories, etc. until there are 198 million different variations, all clamoring to distract and confuse from the one simple approach.
Mankind is the biggest stumbling block to spirituality and understanding God. Only a person in direct communion and meditation with God offers hope and the chance for clarity. Let the spiritual do it's work, and stuff the religious in the trash can.
Last edited by Thoreau424; 12-16-2022 at 06:18 PM..
I was pulled into this thread from another thread.
My personal belief: I do not believe that the Catholic Church is the "real" and "true" church. There are no scriptures in the bible that states this. Only Catholic Church leaders state this. The church that was built and lead by Peter was a church requested by Jesus but had no denomination associated with it. It was simply a church. .Not Catholic, not Lutheran, not Baptist, etc.
Yes, exactly It is a church where everyone who follows Jesus (or aspires to follow Jesus) can go to.
But the term "catholic" really needs to be defined.
There is "Catholic" and there is "catholic". One is a label used to identify a denomination and the other is an adjective used to describe (not identify) the church that Jesus requested Peter to build and lead.
From an online source: The first known use of the phrase "the catholic church" occurred in the letter written about 110 AD from Saint Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans: "Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal Church."
Also from an online soure: The first known occurrence of "Roman Catholic" as a synonym for "Catholic Church" was in communication with the Armenian Apostolic Church in 1208, after the East–West Schism. The last official magisterial document to use "Roman Catholic Church" was issued by Pope Pius XII in 1950.
Notice how church leaders were the ones who stated that the church would be called the "Catholic Church", not Jesus.
Disclaimer: I am not against the Catholic Church. I'm just stating what I know.
I was pulled into this thread from another thread.
My personal belief: I do not believe that the Catholic Church is the "real" and "true" church. There are no scriptures in the bible that states this. Only Catholic Church leaders state this. The church that was built and lead by Peter was a church requested by Jesus but had no denomination associated with it. It was simply a church. Not Catholic, not Lutheran, not Baptist, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCyou
Kind of like a universal church, wouldn’t ya say?
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
Yes, exactly It is a church where everyone who follows Jesus (or aspires to follow Jesus) can go to.
But the term "catholic" really needs to be defined.
The term "catholic" (katholikos in greek) meansUniversal!
As you mentioned- Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of John and known by Polycarp, nailed it in 110AD !
That's why you can go to any of the thousands of churches,
in many various rites (Latin, Byzantine, Alexandrian, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite, Chaldean),
and despite their differences in liturgical expression/ecclesiastical discipline,
they are all in union with Rome,
and one in the same mass!
The Catholic church looks nothing like the churches in the New Testament times...Jesus spoke against calling a brother in Christ 'father', and he spoke against elaborate garb,and against repetitive prayer, and the Bible speaks against bowing and kneeling before statues, etc.
Catholics teach that their Popes are that of “Apostolic Succession.” Apostolic Succession is the unbroken line of succession beginning with the apostle Peter to that of the Pope. There is no such teaching in the Bible as “Apostolic Succession.”
There is no such command, none. Catholics claim Apostolic Succession from Apostle Peter. However, the word of God tells us of no such thing; God’s word forbids us to have favoritism over the apostles.
1 Corinthians 1:11-12 My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 3:1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? [b] Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?
5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a “fool” so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness“; 20and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.
1 Corinthians 4:6 Now brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
It is about not making a brother above the other brothers.
There is no such thing as successors to take the place of any apostle, except one, Judas, who was a devil and was prophesied about being replaced.
The Catholic church looks nothing like the churches in the New Testament times...Jesus spoke against calling a brother in Christ 'father', and he spoke against elaborate garb,and against repetitive prayer, and the Bible speaks against bowing and kneeling before statues, etc.
Catholics teach that their Popes are that of “Apostolic Succession.” Apostolic Succession is the unbroken line of succession beginning with the apostle Peter to that of the Pope. There is no such teaching in the Bible as “Apostolic Succession.”
There is no such command, none. Catholics claim Apostolic Succession from Apostle Peter. However, the word of God tells us of no such thing; God’s word forbids us to have favoritism over the apostles.
1 Corinthians 1:11-12 My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?
1 Corinthians 3:1Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? [b] Are you not acting like mere men? 4For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?
5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. 7So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a “fool” so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness“; 20and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” 21So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.
1 Corinthians 4:6 Now brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
It is about not making a brother above the other brothers.
There is no such thing as successors to take the place of any apostle, except one, Judas, who was a devil and was prophesied about being replaced.
Much of the trappings of religion were adopted directly from pagans or the splendor of the rulers of the day. You, the Christian, are supposed to understand that all of these trappings from the past were Christianized for the purpose of attracting the masses to Christianity. Bait with glitter and switch the star-struck yokels to Jesus. Seems to have worked fairly well. But, there was one dumbass pope (Pope Clement XI) who in 1704 refused to allow the incultuartion of Chinese beliefs into Christianity, thus losing China for the Christian faith.
Much of the trappings of religion were adopted directly from pagans or the splendor of the rulers of the day. You, the Christian, are supposed to understand that all of these trappings from the past were Christianized for the purpose of attracting the masses to Christianity. Bait with glitter and switch the star-struck yokels to Jesus. Seems to have worked fairly well. But, there was one dumbass pope (Pope Clement XI) who in 1704 refused to allow the incultuartion of Chinese beliefs into Christianity, thus losing China for the Christian faith.
Wow interesting about China. I do see some pagan practices when it comes to the using of eggs and bunnies at Easter, and maybe even a tree at Christmas, but do you really think there are more things adapted by the Catholics from pagans?
Wow interesting about China. I do see some pagan practices when it comes to the using of eggs and bunnies at Easter, and maybe even a tree at Christmas, but do you really think there are more things adapted by the Catholics from pagans?
I would just say in reply, as a blanket statement, to regard what Paul initiated: To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
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