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That’s true
But that is part of the design, human bias id natural and has to do with the differentiation of the part, the portion, the administration, the responsibility for their own type and share
1 Corinthians 12 explains about Christianity as a whole being divided into Body parts or members
I think this should be read in conjunction with this
Joh 14:1**Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2**In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3**And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
The members of Christs Body are the congregations that gather together in His name
What has been happening since the Reformation is the separation of the many different members into separate dwelling places/abodes suitable to their own portion and mindset
And to everybody who is not Roman Catholic, that is what the Catholic Church was doing and why there was a need for a Reformation in the first place!
And to everybody who is not Roman Catholic, that is what the Catholic Church was doing and why there was a need for a Reformation in the first place!
And round and round it goes.
I’m just free thinking here but yes that reformation was very much needed because of the over focus on the organisational/structural at the expense of the individuals within and under their care
And the main problem is in not understanding the Holy Scriptures are prophetic not historic about a specific 2000 year period
There is an organisational/system problem in recognising what is inner and outer, what is greater and lesser, and the confusion between how these things relate to each other now as opposed to how they should be relating and communicating with and to each other
What I see is 3 defined periods set out in the past 2000 years regarding Christianity
500 years separating heresy/orthodoxy which is pre the 1000 year reign of the RCC which lorded itself over the multitudes
The past 500 years are where those multitudes have been disbursed and then are gathered together like with like under their own separate ‘heads’ and the way it’s done is via the different doctrines and religious observances given to each part
Individual living intellectual emotional persons are within the dead organisational structures
This is why Paul says that there is neither Jew/Greek, bond/free, male/female because those relate to the organisational types which are ‘dead’ and relates to the inanimate
How can the dead bury the dead? Luke 9:60 They are buried within the various organisations ‘sleeping’ in peace until ‘the resurrection’
I did in post #770 - but since you seem unfamiliar with the old and new covenant and the scriptures,
I'll answer the same as Jesus did in Matthew 23:2 & Mat 16:18-19 - listen to those who have taken their seat on the chair of Petros!
Wrong. Listen to the one who is the original and ONLY rock or foundation stone on which the ecclesia of Christ is based - Jesus the Christ. Learn the "mind of Christ" if you wish to know the "mind of God." It is not hard to do when you are in one or more of the states of mind associated with God's Holy Spirit of agape love as Jesus revealed and demonstrated it.
I did in post #770 - but since you seem unfamiliar with the old and new covenant and the scriptures,
I'll answer the same as Jesus did in Matthew 23:2 & Mat 16:18-19 - listen to those who have taken their seat on the chair of Petros!
Peter still occupies his chair. He teaches me all the time.
Educate me. What statements and promises did he make? And I mean that in a respectful way. I would like to learn
The most profound example is from Matthew 16 when Jesus promises to build His Church; and He promises that the gates of hell will never prevail against it. He then gives Peter the keys to the kingdom with the power of binding and loosing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
I have no idea what the church is. As humans living after Jesus ascended to heaven and all of his disciples dead and in heaven, we try our hardest to define WHAT the church is and our decisions so far has divided us massively instead of uniting us. As far as WHERE the church is, I have no idea. Based on a quick glance, this is a discussion in which people argue and dispute each other.
Does the bolded bother you? Do you think Jesus intended for His Church to be hidden and enigmatic?
Ordination of the man made Religion of Catholicism.
We see many examples in Scripture of the laying on of hands. Timothy, for example, we know was ordained through the laying on of hands (1 Timothy 4:14).
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Originally Posted by WalkintheLight
Why does Catholic doctrine not allow priests to marry? The Apostle Peter was married, your so called first Pope. Even though Paul was the first Apostle in Rome and wrote the epistle to the Romans. Peter showed up in Rome after Paul.
Priestly celibacy is not a doctrinal issue, but a practical one. There are many married Catholic priests, especially in the Eastern rites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkintheLight
However it is not the one True Church as it claims.
When did the Catholic Church lose its status as the one True Church; and how do you square that with Christ's promise in Matthew 16 that the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church?
The most profound example is from Matthew 16 when Jesus promises to build His Church; and He promises that the gates of hell will never prevail against it. He then gives Peter the keys to the kingdom with the power of binding and loosing.
Does the bolded bother you? Do you think Jesus intended for His Church to be hidden and enigmatic?
I've asked you before that if Jesus stood next to you in physical human form and you asked him if the Church HE built was Catholic, Jesus would agree and say "yes". You genuinely believe Jesus would agree that the Catholic Church is the Church He founded. You 100% agree that every rule, every tradition, every prayer, everything the Catholic Church does is something Jesus would agree to. You agree that prohibiting communion from non-Catholics is something Jesus would agree to. You agree that praying to statues is something Jesus would agree to. You agree that only church leaders can drink the wine (Blood of Christ) is something Jesus would agree to.
I've asked you before that if Jesus stood next to you in physical human form and you asked him if the Church HE built was Catholic, Jesus would agree and say "yes". You genuinely believe Jesus would agree that the Catholic Church is the Church He founded.
Yes, of course. I wouldn't be a Catholic if I didn't believe that.
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Originally Posted by compwiz02
You 100% agree that every rule, every tradition, every prayer, everything the Catholic Church does is something Jesus would agree to.
No, of course not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
You agree that prohibiting communion from non-Catholics is something Jesus would agree to.
Yes, of course. 1 Corinthians 11 is clear on this, particularly verse 27: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord."
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
You agree that praying to statues is something Jesus would agree to.
Of course not, because we don't pray to statues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
You agree that only church leaders can drink the wine (Blood of Christ) is something Jesus would agree to.
This is not a universal practice in the Church; but I don't think Jesus objects to the formerly normative practice in the Latin Rite of withholding the cup from the laity.
Yes, of course. I wouldn't be a Catholic if I didn't believe that.
No, of course not.
Yes, of course. 1 Corinthians 11 is clear on this, particularly verse 27: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord."
Of course not, because we don't pray to statues.
This is not a universal practice in the Church; but I don't think Jesus objects to the formerly normative practice in the Latin Rite of withholding the cup from the laity.
Gotcha. We have some disagreements then.
I've read 1 Corinthians 11. Multiple denominations have different opinions on it. My opinion is that it does NOT prevent ANYONE from being rejected from partaking in the Body and Blood of Christ. "Unworthy manner" is a term that has so many different interpretations. I personally believe it means do not eat the Body and Blood of Christ in a disrespectful manner meaning you share the Body and Blood of Christ with anyone who believes and accepts Christ. You don't just take the Body of Christ and eat it as though you are starving for food and then drink the Blood of Christ as though you are at a party gulping down wine. You pay respects towards it. Has nothing to do with denomination.
Regarding statues, yea.....I've seen so many Catholics kneel down to a statue and say prayers to it... not all Catholics to it, but many do. They call it "veneration" or paying respects to it. I feel it is unnecessary. Scripture prohibits it.
I've read 1 Corinthians 11. Multiple denominations have different opinions on it. My opinion is that it does NOT prevent ANYONE from being rejected from partaking in the Body and Blood of Christ. "Unworthy manner" is a term that has so many different interpretations. I personally believe it means do not eat the Body and Blood of Christ in a disrespectful manner meaning you share the Body and Blood of Christ with anyone who believes and accepts Christ. You don't just take the Body of Christ and eat it as though you are starving for food and then drink the Blood of Christ as though you are at a party gulping down wine. You pay respects towards it. Has nothing to do with denomination.
For better insight, why not look and see what the early Church Fathers who learned directly from the Apostles believed; and how the early Church practiced?
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
Regarding statues, yea.....I've seen so many Catholics kneel down to a statue and say prayers to it... not all Catholics to it, but many do. They call it "veneration" or paying respects to it. I feel it is unnecessary. Scripture prohibits it.
We do indeed kneel in front of statues or images and pray. This doesn't mean we're praying to the statue or the image. What it means is that onlookers don't know what they're witnessing, so they jump to unreasonable conclusions.
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