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I'm not making it complicated at all. It's very simple. We call the Church "Catholic" because the word "catholic" means "universal". The Catholic Church is the Church of Jesus and God's Church.
I'm sorry you don't like the name "Catholic". You can blame the early Greek-speaking Christians for that.
So if the Catholic Church is not the same church founded by Christ, which ecclesiastical body did the Catholic Church break away from?
No one said it broke away. It formed from the original communal churches of early Christianity in a specific place--Rome--and entwined itself with the culture and power structure of that place. Before that, or while that was happening, there were also churches established in places like Syria and India and northern Africa over which Rome had no influence, but because they weren't part of that large empire, they didn't grow as big or extend as far.
I'm not making it complicated at all. It's very simple. We call the Church "Catholic" because the word "catholic" means "universal". The Catholic Church is the Church of Jesus and God's Church.
I'm sorry you don't like the name "Catholic". You can blame the early Greek-speaking Christians for that.
So if the Catholic Church is not the same church founded by Christ, which ecclesiastical body did the Catholic Church break away from?
Lets not sugarcoat things. There is a difference between "catholic" and "Catholic". Uppercase vs lowercase. Lets not pretend like they are the same thing because....they aren't.
The Church was founded by Christ then some religious leader (online articles say Saint Ignatius of Antioch) started saying "Catholic Church" and I guess people liked it.
So no, the church did not break away from anything. It wasn't even founded by anybody. It was started by Saint Ignatius of Antioch and religious leaders after him started saying "the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus". If the church wanted to differentiate itself, it should have called itself "Church of St. Ignatius" or "Church of Antioch". Don't ruin the word "catholic". It isn't universal if the church has priests that blocks those who disagree with it from consuming the body of Christ.
No one said it broke away. It formed from the original communal churches of early Christianity in a specific place--Rome--and entwined itself with the culture and power structure of that place. Before that, or while that was happening, there were also churches established in places like Syria and India and northern Africa over which Rome had no influence, but because they weren't part of that large empire, they didn't grow as big or extend as far.
It has nothing to do with Roman influence, but about communion.
There is One Church, One Communion of believers.
When did the Catholic Church break off or distinguish itself from this One Communion?
So no, the church did not break away from anything. It wasn't even founded by anybody. It was started by Saint Ignatius of Antioch and religious leaders after him started saying "the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus". If the church wanted to differentiate itself, it should have called itself "Church of St. Ignatius" or "Church of Antioch".
Isn't the bolded strong evidence or even proof that the Church as described by St. Ignatius is the One Church founded by Christ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
Don't ruin the word "catholic". It isn't universal if the church has priests that blocks those who disagree with it from consuming the body of Christ.
Communion is real. The Church is substantive and not just ethereal. Truth matters. You seem to disagree with all three of these presuppositions.
Lets not sugarcoat things. There is a difference between "catholic" and "Catholic". Uppercase vs lowercase. Lets not pretend like they are the same thing because....they aren't.
I guess you dismiss what I said back then outright?
Yes, you said this:
Quote:
The Church in this day and age is both catholic and Catholic. We are forced to use the capital-C in order to distinguish the True Church from the many sects who claim to be part of the "church catholic", but in fact are not.
Yes, I know your opinion on this. You believe that the day St. Ignatious proclaimed the Church as Catholic, it was the "True Church". No questions asked. I personally disagree.
nope. Is there evidence that Jesus approves what St. Ignatius did? Catholics approve it. Does Jesus approve it?
Ignatius was the bishop of Antioch. He was a part of the hierarchy of the Church. There is only One Church. Ignatius was either a part of the hierarchy of the True Church or of a false sect. By this line of questioning, you seem to be suggesting - whether you intend to or not - that he belonged to a false sect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
You believe that the day St. Ignatious proclaimed the Church as Catholic, it was the "True Church". No questions asked. I personally disagree.
No, that's not how it works. Ignatius didn't "proclaim" anything. He was an actual ordained bishop in the One, True Church of Jesus Christ, which he referred to as "catholic", meaning "universal".
Ignatius was the bishop of Antioch. He was a part of the hierarchy of the Church. There is only One Church. Ignatius was either a part of the hierarchy of the True Church or of a false sect. By this line of questioning, you seem to be suggesting - whether you intend to or not - that he belonged to a false sect.
No, that's not how it works. Ignatius didn't "proclaim" anything. He was an actual ordained bishop in the One, True Church of Jesus Christ, which he referred to as "catholic", meaning "universal".
I'll reiterate my opinion again and lets agree to disagree for the time being. You believe, without question, that the Catholic Church (with a capital C) IS "The True Church". I disagree with this. I do not believe there is such a a thing as "the true church" nor do I believe that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. I believe he founded a church with no denominations or religions attached.
Then what do you make of Jesus' statements and promises regarding the church? And this seems to contradict your next quote:
This I would agree with. The question is: where and what is it?
Educate me. What statements and promises did he make? And I mean that in a respectful way. I would like to learn
I have no idea what the church is. As humans living after Jesus ascended to heaven and all of his disciples dead and in heaven, we try our hardest to define WHAT the church is and our decisions so far has divided us massively instead of uniting us. As far as WHERE the church is, I have no idea. Based on a quick glance, this is a discussion in which people argue and dispute each other.
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