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I have a question for those of you who identify as born-again Christians. I would like to know how the experience of being "born again" has changed the way in which you interact with your fellow human beings, i.e. your fellow born-again Christians, all other Christians, non-Christians who are devout in their own beliefs, and non-religious or non-believing individuals?
In your opinion, has being born again made you a better person, or does it just ensure your salvation?
I had a moment similar to what Mystic had but in a different way and it changed me in an instant. I knew right away. I went from a pot smoking, beer guzzling, acid dropping , get more wrecked than the night before stoner to a Jesus freak in an instant. It was like Jesus literally stood before me when I was on my knees with people praying over me.
I won't go into the details of how I got to this church but it was through this girl I met at a bar. Had I not met her, no way would I ever go to a prayer meeting. (I ended up marrying this girl, still married today by the way)
Anyway, the moment happened when I acknowledged I worshiped pot instead of God. Not even close by the way. God asked me then, would you give it up for Me? The overwhelming presence made it so easy for me to make the decision. God, it's all yours, I completely surrender. At that moment, I knew I was different and I was. I surrendered myself, not just the weed.
The very following night this happened, my buddies pick me up and we go to the same bar, me reluctant of course. I walked in and it was like walking into a dungeon, so spiritually dark. I told them I couldn't do this and walked out and walked home. Nothing has been the same since.
Anyway, my faith is stronger than ever due to the fact the Lord revealed to me through His Spirit that Jesus is indeed the Savior of all mankind. If only those who don't believe this would seek Him and ask, He will show them as well but there has to be an open mind and love in the heart.
Last thing, I gotta' throw this in here as well, I do indulge in the herb now since I believe the marijuana plant is a gift from God. I did go like 20 years without smoking though. Now it is guilt free .
I can't really answer this because I don't know what it's like to *not* be born again. Although I was not brought up Catholic, I was baptized at a young age, was raised by amazing Godly parents, and have always considered myself a Christian.
That said, I have experienced profound experiences of conversion in my own life; the most profound being my coming into the Catholic Faith. I'm truly not the same person I was before I became Catholic and received Christ sacramentally, body and blood, into my own body and soul. Certain sins I thought I'd never overcome, by the grace of God I have.
I can answer objectively that my baptism has given me the grace I need to turn from sin, love God and my neighbor, and persevere in salvation. I don't live up to those standards all the time, but I know that God has enabled me to, so any failing on my part is my own.
As for how different my life and my behaviors would be had I never been baptized; I can speculate based on the particular things I struggle with, but I can't know.
I was baptized as a baby. It just got me wet. My parents took me to Mass each week, and I had the usual Catholic milestones.
It did a lot more than that! Even now your baptism is calling you back to Christ again and again, every time you mess up. Am I right?
I remember hearing so many stories growing up in the Baptist church from people who were baptized as babies, then fell away from the faith. Then in adulthood, they came back to Christ. Then they would get "re-baptized" as if their actual baptism had nothing to do with their reversion. Pah!
I get that, but you did not experience baptism as an infant, and I think that makes a big difference. That's just one reason why I believe it should come when a person is ready to appreciate it.
For those who believe it is some magical event, your reasoning will fall on deaf ears, Katz. It is our states of mind that define whether or not we are baptized to faith in what Jesus accomplished for us, not magic, IMO. It is those states of mind that provide direct access to the Comforter and His guidance. It is no coincidence that those who are most Christlike seem to be in those states of mind most often.
For those who believe it is some magical event, your reasoning will fall on deaf ears, Katz. It is our states of mind that define whether or not we are baptized to faith in what Jesus accomplished for us, not magic, IMO. It is those states of mind that provide direct access to the Comforter and His guidance. It is no coincidence that those who are most Christlike seem to be in those states of mind most often.
You keep mocking sacramental grace as "magic".
You disbelieve in the supernatural.
You place yourself in the position of judge over those of us who do believe in the supernatural.
You call those of us who believe, along with 2,000 years of orthodox Christianity, that sin will be eternally judged "barbaric" and "primitive".
You reject pretty much every orthodox tenet of Christianity I can think of.
To echo Katz' thread, why exactly are you here?
And a question of my own: Who do you think you are?
Wake up, Mystic. Romans 1:22 is speaking of you. Get over yourself.
You keep mocking sacramental grace as "magic".
You disbelieve in the supernatural.
You place yourself in the position of judge over those of us who do believe in the supernatural.
You call those of us who believe, along with 2,000 years of orthodox Christianity, that sin will be eternally judged "barbaric" and "primitive".
You reject pretty much every orthodox tenet of Christianity I can think of.
To echo Katz' thread, why exactly are you here?
And a question of my own: Who do you think you are?
Wake up, Mystic. Romans 1:22 is speaking of you. Get over yourself.
There is no such thing as the supernatural, just what we do not as yet fully understand. I do know a great deal about what you call the supernatural but it is not remotely what you think it is. What you call orthodox Christian doctrine or dogma is and has been corrupted from its earliest beginnings by the context of a wrathful vengeful God who needed to be appeased by His "filthy rags" children who deserve eternal torment in Hell without His appeasement.
What a preposterously evil God that depicts, IMO. Pretending that it is somehow the result of God's Holiness is the ultimate blasphemy of God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness as revealed unambiguously by Jesus Christ on the Cross. You vehemently disagree, but that does not make it any less an accurate description of your orthodox beliefs. I want you to love God and each other "without reservation or purpose of evasion" that your fear-ridden orthodox beliefs about God's nature prevent.
Isaiah 64 where you find the quote about "filthy rags" is about self righteous people who do good deeds out of their own pride. It's the opposite of being a "born again" Christion or a Christian who has been born by water and spirit.
I know you have your own beliefs and disagree with organized Christianity. Your beliefs don't negate the fact that Christian's have been baptizing their children at least since Lydia and her whole household and the jailer and his household were baptized in Acts 16. We baptize because Christ commanded it, the apostles practiced it and we want our children to take part in our beliefs through the life of the church.
There is no such thing as the supernatural, just what we do not as yet fully understand. I do know a great deal about what you call the supernatural but it is not remotely what you think it is. What you call orthodox Christian doctrine or dogma is and has been corrupted from its earliest beginnings by the context of a wrathful vengeful God who needed to be appeased by His "filthy rags" children who deserve eternal torment in Hell without His appeasement.
What a preposterously evil God that depicts, IMO. Pretending that it is somehow the result of God's Holiness is the ultimate blasphemy of God's Holy Spirit of agape love and forgiveness as revealed unambiguously by Jesus Christ on the Cross. You vehemently disagree, but that does not make it any less an accurate description of your orthodox beliefs. I want you to love God and each other "without reservation or purpose of evasion" that your fear-ridden orthodox beliefs about God's nature prevent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
That's only your opinion. You can no more prove that the supernatural doesn't exist than an atheist can prove that God doesn't exist.
Since the supernatural remains part of the UNKNOWN, your opinion is acceptable but it flies in the face of what we DO KNOW. However, there is no escaping the evil of the dogma in bold that is attributed to God's Holiness. That is beyond the pale!!!
Since the supernatural remains part of the UNKNOWN, your opinion is acceptable but it flies in the face of what we DO KNOW. However, there is no escaping the evil of the dogma in bold that is attributed to God's Holiness. That is beyond the pale!!!
How does the supernatural fly in the face of what we do know?
Also, your view that God's justice in sentencing unbelievers to eternal separation makes him evil is also only your opinion.
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