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By making a conscious choice to reject God's grace, as Adam did.
Boy, we're pretty off-topic here (and have been for a good long time), but I do agree that it is possible for a person to reject God's grace. I certainly don't believe that the Bible even remotely implies that Adam did so. What is leading you to that conclusion?
Boy, we're pretty off-topic here (and have been for a good long time), but I do agree that it is possible for a person to reject God's grace. I certainly don't believe that the Bible even remotely implies that Adam did so. What is leading you to that conclusion?
I don't mean to imply that I believe Adam to be in hell. I was referring to his specific act of eating the fruit as being a rejection of God's grace.
I don't mean to imply that I believe Adam to be in hell. I was referring to his specific act of eating the fruit as being a rejection of God's grace.
Thanks for the clarification, and I'm glad to hear you say that. Still, I don't see how eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil really had anything to do with God's grace. Yes, Adam and Eve were instructed not to eat its fruit, but until they ate it, their eyes were not yet open, and they were unable to discern between good and evil. It seems to me that they were actually incapable of rejecting God's grace until after they were cast out of Eden.
Thanks for the clarification, and I'm glad to hear you say that. Still, I don't see how eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil really had anything to do with God's grace. Yes, Adam and Eve were instructed not to eat its fruit, but until they ate it, their eyes were not yet open, and they were unable to discern between good and evil. It seems to me that they were actually incapable of rejecting God's grace until after they were cast out of Eden.
Mike and Irkle have drunk the Kool Aid and are unable to escape from the dogma of our ancestors. Sadly, most Christians seem similarly trapped in the existing dogma. I came to the Christian narrative without all the conditioned baggage and belief in a wrathful God. I find the acceptance of it bemusing.
Mike and Irkle have drunk the Kool Aid and are unable to escape from the dogma of our ancestors. Sadly, most Christians seem similarly trapped in the existing dogma. I came to the Christian narrative without all the conditioned baggage and belief in a wrathful God. I find the acceptance of it bemusing.
You scorn existing dogma and made up your own private dogma. That makes you denomination 30,001.
You scorn existing dogma and made up your own private dogma. That makes you denomination 30,001.
No. I actually believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and that is why I believe God's Holy Spirit is agape love and forgiveness as Jesus revealed on the Cross. Everything stems from that belief in Jesus as God instead of the God presented by our ancestors in the OT and by Moses. Your dogma is mired in the ancient ignorance of our ancestors, IMO, NOT in the revelations of Jesus Christ as it SHOULD BE for Christians.
No. I actually believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and that is why I believe God's Holy Spirit is agape love and forgiveness as Jesus revealed on the Cross. Everything stems from that belief in Jesus as God instead of the God presented by our ancestors in the OT and by Moses. Your dogma is mired in the ancient ignorance of our ancestors, IMO, NOT in the revelations of Jesus Christ as it SHOULD BE for Christians.
Where did you get the idea that Christians don't believe that God is love?
Where did you get the idea that Christians don't believe that God is love? Do you believe all Christians buy into all that old testament smiting?
I don't think ALL Christians agree about anything, but far too many accept the wrathful God interpretation of what Jesus did on the Cross. They accept the wrathful God interpretation despite the fact that Jesus as God in the flesh exhibited not the slightest hint of wrathfulness during His scourging and crucifixion. He, in fact, forgave us all including His torturers and murderers because of our ignorance That contradiction of God's True Nature goes unnoticed in the dogma of blood sacrifice.
I don't think ALL Christians agree about anything, but far too many accept the wrathful God interpretation of what Jesus did on the Cross. They accept the wrathful God interpretation despite the fact that Jesus as God in the flesh exhibited not the slightest hint of wrathfulness during His scourging and crucifixion. He, in fact, forgave us all including His torturers and murderers because of our ignorance That contradiction of God's True Nature goes unnoticed in the dogma of blood sacrifice.
I never heard of any "wrathful God" interpretation of the crucifixion. Is this some evangelical interpretation? I don't know much about protestantism. The crucifixion was Christ's victory over sin and death. No "wrath of God" involved.
I never heard of any "wrathful God" interpretation of the crucifixion. Is this some evangelical interpretation? I don't know much about Protestantism. The crucifixion was Christ's victory over sin and death. No "wrath of God" involved.
The dominant interpretation is that God required it to appease His wrath by a blood sacrifice so He could forgive us for "whatever" and save us from Hell or damnation.
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