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I believe that the belief of being born again derives from John Wesley and his idea of the second act of grace, which is the belief that at some point a miracle is performed by God and the person experiences a sort of sanctification, wherein they’re reborn “perfect” without the original sin of Adam and Eve.
"Born again" is a Biblical and Catholic term, as it comes from Christ's conversation with Nicodemus in John 3.
While evangelicals view being "born again" as a purely spiritual experience, we (Catholics) equate it with the sacramental experience of baptism.
You are so close to the truth. Jesus did what God required but He did it as a human so we would not need to be perfect.
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Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
Jesus did what God required so that we could be perfected.
Catholicism holds a more nuanced view of the concept of "perfection" than evangelicalism or Protestantism typically does.
Closer. In order to be perfected, we have to remain with God despite our imperfections. Jesus provides us the cover while that happens. I like the pearl analogy my friend Rosey often posts. An irritating grain of sand enters an oyster but instead of spitting it out the oyster covers it with some of itself. The longer it remains in the oyster under its coverage the bigger and more beautiful the pearl becomes.
Closer. In order to be perfected, we have to remain with God despite our imperfections.
How does this play out in real time? I would say it's through the Sacrament of Confession - we confess our sins and receive absolution, healing our imperfections and bringing us ever closer to Christ.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Jesus provides us the cover while that happens. I like the pearl analogy my friend Rosey often posts. An irritating grain of sand enters an oyster but instead of spitting it out the oyster covers it with some of itself. The longer it remains in the oyster under its coverage the bigger and more beautiful the pearl becomes.
Nope. God's grace is much more powerful than that. Rather than merely providing 'cover' for our sins as Luther asserted through his "snow-covered dung hill" metaphor, Christ actually transforms us from the inside out!
Closer. In order to be perfected, we have to remain with God despite our imperfections. Jesus provides us the cover while that happens. I like the pearl analogy my friend Rosey often posts. An irritating grain of sand enters an oyster but instead of spitting it out the oyster covers it with some of itself. The longer it remains in the oyster under its coverage the bigger and more beautiful the pearl becomes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
How does this play out in real time? I would say it's through the Sacrament of Confession - we confess our sins and receive absolution, healing our imperfections and bringing us ever closer to Christ.
You are referring to what happens while we are here and it is called repentance, or the renewing of our mind. We are removing the irritating parts of our "sandy" selves before we have to join God on our death. We only need the cover of Jesus's perfection once we die and are "born again" as potentially "sandy" spirits.
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Nope. God's grace is much more powerful than that. Rather than merely providing 'cover' for our sins as Luther asserted through his "snow-covered dung hill" metaphor, Christ actually transforms us from the inside out!
It is after our death and rebirth as spirits that we need the cover of Christ's perfection (Grace) while we are being actually transformed from the inside out to remove all the dross.
We only need the cover of Jesus's perfection once we die and are "born again" as potentially "sandy" spirits. It is after our death and rebirth as spirits that we need the cover of Christ's perfection (Grace) while we are being actually transformed from the inside out to remove all the dross.
Yes, I do, but on the cross, Christ represented us. That’s why He was punished.
Do you believe Isaiah 53?
I believe you're misinterpreting Isaiah 53. This fire and brimstone vengefulness goes against God's love for his Son and his love for us. God wanted to restore us out of love so that it would be possible for us to be born again.To free us from death. The cross isn't the entire work of the crucifixion. What about the continuing events of Holy Saturday and the resurection? This was all for us out of God's love.
I believe you're misinterpreting Isaiah 53. This fire and brimstone vengefulness goes against God's love for his Son and his love for us. God wanted to restore us out of love so that it would be possible for us to be born again.To free us from death. The cross isn't the entire work of the crucifixion. What about the continuing events of Holy Saturday and the resurection? This was all for us out of God's love.
You’re confusing God’s justice with God’s love. Jesus, out of love, took our punishment on the cross.
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You are so close to the truth. Jesus did what God required but He did it as a human so we would not need to be perfect. 
