Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jesus applied Isaiah 53 to himself when he quoted Isaiah 53:12 in Luke 22:37 and said that it must be fulfilled in him. Further, the apostle Philip said that Isaiah 53 referred to Jesus in Acts 8:26-35 when he began preaching Jesus to the Ethiopian Eunuch from Isaiah 53.
You people who have a problem with that, the problem is yours.
The verse is saying that the people considered Him 'punished by God', not that God punished Him! BIG difference.
I agree
Isa 53:3**He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4**Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
The punishment was of the transgression of his people which he took on
Isa 53:8**He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9**And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10**Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11**He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12**Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
It ties in with this passage in Mark 2
Mar 2:15**And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
Mar 2:16**And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
Mar 2:17**When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
The verse is saying that the people considered Him 'punished by God', not that God punished Him! BIG difference.
Wrong. Read further…
Isaiah 53
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
The wrath of God upon Jesus for our sake is Christianity’s most basic belief. Hence why there is a cross displayed in every church, Protestant or Catholic.
No. That is absolutely NOT why we display the crucifix in Catholic churches, nor is it anything remotely close to "Christianity's most basic belief".
Penal substitution is a heresy that has been officially condemned by the Catholic Church. Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity, did NOT suffer the wrath of the first person of the Trinity. The Trinity cannot be divided against itself.
No. That is absolutely NOT why we display the crucifix in Catholic churches, nor is it anything remotely close to "Christianity's most basic belief".
Penal substitution is a heresy that has been officially condemned by the Catholic Church. Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity, did NOT suffer the wrath of the first person of the Trinity. The Trinity cannot be divided against itself.
To your latter statement, was not Jesus forsaken on the cross?
To the former, what does the crucifix represent, if not a reminder of Jesus’ redemptive work?
There is a tendency to just think of ourselves as individuals, and not the community and society
1Pe 1:21**Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22**Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23**Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24**For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25**But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
There is a vast difference between the natural and the spiritual (the heaven and earth)
Isa 55:7**Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8**For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9**For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isa 55:10**For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isa 55:11**So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
It is a reminder of Christ's redemptive work. It is not God's wrath upon Jesus.
The Father.
How then was redemption made possible?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
