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Who is Jesus referring to in John 10:16 when He says “other sheep,” and when He says “this fold?” There are two groups here. Who do you think they are?
John 10
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
My second question is what do you mean by “anointed?”
So far we have agreed that Jesus is the Shepherd, the little flock is his disciples, and that there are two groups of sheep, do you recognize the second group as being his disciples as well?
The little flock were mentioned as separate from the other sheep. I referred to them as anointed, as they are all baptized by holy spirit, selected to be Kings and Priests with Jesus in the Kingdom of God and reside with him Rev 5:9,10. They are referred to as Jesus' bride 2 Cor 11:2; Rev 21:9. These are purchased by the blood of Jesus to leave the earth, and only are numbered as 144,000, a little flock as compared to the number of Jesus' disciples Rev 14:3.
So far we have agreed that Jesus is the Shepherd, the little flock is his disciples, and that there are two groups of sheep, do you recognize the second group as being his disciples as well?
The little flock were mentioned as separate from the other sheep. I referred to them as anointed, as they are all baptized by holy spirit, selected to be Kings and Priests with Jesus in the Kingdom of God and reside with him Rev 5:9,10. They are referred to as Jesus' bride 2 Cor 11:2; Rev 21:9. These are purchased by the blood of Jesus to leave the earth, and only are numbered as 144,000, a little flock as compared to the number of Jesus' disciples Rev 14:3.
Are we still in agreement maam?
Hello Highway. I was beginning to wonder if you were going to respond. Glad to hear back from you!
I suggest to you, in light of Ephesians 2:11-22 and Ephesians 3:1-7 that the other sheep Jesus spoke of were the Gentiles. Notice in John 10:16, Jesus said, “I must bring them in as well, and they WILL LISTEN to my voice. They were not part of the fold or body of Christ at this time. He had not brought them into the fold yet. He had not at this time built His church. However, there were Gentiles who believed in Jesus. There was the Roman centurion. There was the man from whom Jesus cast out demons and sent them into a herd of pigs, and then sent him to minister to his gentile neighbors.
To answer your question, I see the other sheep as Gentile followers of Christ.
As for your comment that Jesus purchased the blood of 144,000 to leave the earth, we can discuss that once we determine who is other sheep are that He would bring into the fold.
I suggest to you, in light of Ephesians 2:11-22 and Ephesians 3:1-7 that the other sheep Jesus spoke of were the Gentiles. Notice in John 10:16, Jesus said, “I must bring them in as well, and they WILL LISTEN to my voice. They were not part of the fold or body of Christ at this time. He had not brought them into the fold yet. He had not at this time built His church. However, there were Gentiles who believed in Jesus. There was the Roman centurion. There was the man from whom Jesus cast out demons and sent them into a herd of pigs, and then sent him to minister to his gentile neighbors.
That couldn't be. Jesus had previously stated, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Therefore, the sheep that He had that were "not of this fold" had to be of the house of Israel but not of the "fold" located in the Holy Land. He said that they would hear "[His] voice," and not merely "his word" as spoken by those who were His disciples. It was not until after Paul was part of the Church that the gospel was preached to the gentiles. They were neither of the house of Israel nor did they ever hear Jesus' voice.
Hello Highway. I was beginning to wonder if you were going to respond. Glad to hear back from you!
I suggest to you, in light of Ephesians 2:11-22 and Ephesians 3:1-7 that the other sheep Jesus spoke of were the Gentiles. Notice in John 10:16, Jesus said, “I must bring them in as well, and they WILL LISTEN to my voice. They were not part of the fold or body of Christ at this time. He had not brought them into the fold yet. He had not at this time built His church. However, there were Gentiles who believed in Jesus. There was the Roman centurion. There was the man from whom Jesus cast out demons and sent them into a herd of pigs, and then sent him to minister to his gentile neighbors.
To answer your question, I see the other sheep as Gentile followers of Christ.
As for your comment that Jesus purchased the blood of 144,000 to leave the earth, we can discuss that once we determine who is other sheep are that He would bring into the fold.
They can be referred to as Gentiles maam, as the little flock is the Israel of God, but keep in mind those are just words as under the new covenant even those of the little flock come from all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues Rev 5:9. Were you familiar that the Kingdom was taken from the Jews and given to a nation producing it's fruits? Mat 21:43
The other sheep, or if you want to refer to them as gentiles, are those who are citizens of the Kingdom of God, not Kings and Priests, rather just the citizens. They are the vast majority who inherit the earth. As in the case of the little flock, they come from all tribes, nations, peoples, and tongues as well.
That couldn't be. Jesus had previously stated, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Therefore, the sheep that He had that were "not of this fold" had to be of the house of Israel but not of the "fold" located in the Holy Land. He said that they would hear "[His] voice," and not merely "his word" as spoken by those who were His disciples. It was not until after Paul was part of the Church that the gospel was preached to the gentiles. They were neither of the house of Israel nor did they ever hear Jesus' voice.
Who is Jesus referring to when He says “this fold” in John 10:16?
“And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
They can be referred to as Gentiles maam, as the little flock is the Israel of God, but keep in mind those are just words as under the new covenant even those of the little flock come from all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues Rev 5:9. Were you familiar that the Kingdom was taken from the Jews and given to a nation producing it's fruits? Mat 21:43
The other sheep, or if you want to refer to them as gentiles, are those who are citizens of the Kingdom of God, not Kings and Priests, rather just the citizens. They are the vast majority who inherit the earth. As in the case of the little flock, they come from all tribes, nations, peoples, and tongues as well.
Hello Highway.
We agreed that the “little flock” were Jesus’ disciples (See your post #201). I’m not sure why you now refer to the little flock as the Israel of God. Maybe you could explain?
Yes I am familiar with Matthew 21:43. Jesus was speaking to the chief priests and elders who were questioning His authority.
It was to them He said, “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.” Jesus did not mean that He would take the kingdom from the nation of Israel. After all, His closest followers were of the nation of Israel. He is speaking specifically to the chief priests and elders. Jesus would take the kingdom from them. They had stopped producing fruit long ago. Jesus is saying He would give the kingdom to a nation bearing fruit. That nation would be His church. It would be His congregation, His body who would bear fruits. They would include both Jews and Gentiles.
It seems you have made two classes of Christians with your statement: 1. Citizens of the kingdom 2. kings and priests. I see them as one in the same. Can you provide Scripture to support this view?
He was referring to his audience, to those of the house of Israel who were in what we now refer to as the Holy Land.
Katzpur, I’m really happy that you’ve joined in on this discussion. Highway, as you know, is a Jehovah’s Witness. We have been posting back and forth about John 10:16 for a few days now. It’s good to have you, being of the Mormon faith, join in the discussion. I hope you will continue.
Would you say “this fold” Jesus speaks of is the entire house of Israel?
John 10
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
What's with this "us" and "them" mentality? No one is less-than or greater-than anyone else.
This has always bugged me too. Didn't Israel forfeit their "specialness" when they rejected Jesus?
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