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The culminating of the great trib has not yet happened Kate, verse 22. We speculate on that, but until it actually happens we will not know for sure how these foretold events will literally present themselves. We are very certain however, that all will know who is behind their appearance, but we also believe that when they do know for sure, that it will be too late to jump on the "ark". Now is the time to live your life as if it were your last day. Those things may literally happen, but they can be symbolic as well.
Those terms have been used before in the Bible, if you would like to see the comparison I would be glad to post our understanding to the degree that we do understand it.
As I said, I don’t do commentaries, but if you would like to post Scripture found throughout the Bible that apply to those phrases, I would love to discuss them with you. Please understand. It is you I wish to debate, not the organization you belong to. I would no more read or discuss links from the RCC or Mormon faiths than I would your organization. I’m here to talk to people, one on one. Please understand.
You must read the entire account in Matthew 24 alongside the entire account of Luke 21 to get the full picture. The “abomination of desolation” of Mt 24 and the “desolation” of Luke 21 are speaking of the same event: Jerusalem besieged by the Romans and the eventual destruction of Jerusalem, the Temple and the the end of the Jewish religious system. This is the great tribulation, not some far off event 2000+ years into the future.
20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
I meant that the canon of the bible did not exist in the first century. Of course there was already the Old Testament and oral tradition, along with tons of letters and oral traditions circulating that didn't end up in the canon of scripture.
I have never said nor do I believe that God's word didn't exist in the first century. But like I said before, (which is all I said before), the bible AS WE KNOW IT TODAY did not exist in the first century. Can we agree on this much?
good post.
One church of Constantine needed One unified Book.
As I said, I don’t do commentaries, but if you would like to post Scripture found throughout the Bible that apply to those phrases, I would love to discuss them with you. Please understand. It is you I wish to debate, not the organization you belong to. I would no more read or discuss links from the RCC or Mormon faiths than I would your organization. I’m here to talk to people, one on one. Please understand.
You must read the entire account in Matthew 24 alongside the entire account of Luke 21 to get the full picture. The “abomination of desolation” of Mt 24 and the “desolation” of Luke 21 are speaking of the same event: Jerusalem besieged by the Romans and the eventual destruction of Jerusalem, the Temple and the the end of the Jewish religious system. This is the great tribulation, not some far off event 2000+ years into the future.
20“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
There is the church that is the collective body of Christ, which comprises believers across the full spectrum of Orthodoxy, Catholicism and Protestantism. God will determine who is and isn't part of the body. One Catholic or Baptist may be, another may not.
If we want to talk about the organized body that was instituted by Christ, I believe the Eastern Orthodox Church has by far the strongest claim. Even though I am not Orthodox for reasons of geography and age, I believe it is the one true church and that Christianity would be in a far better state than it is today if the Great Schism, Reformation and assorted lesser earthquakes had never occurred.
There is the church that is the collective body of Christ, which comprises believers across the full spectrum of Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and Protestantism. God will determine who is and isn't part of the body. One Catholic or Baptist may be, another may not.
If we want to talk about the organized body that was instituted by Christ, I believe the Eastern Orthodox Church has by far the strongest claim. Even though I am not Orthodox for reasons of geography and age, I believe it is the one true church and that Christianity would be in a far better state than it is today if the Great Schism, Reformation, and assorted lesser earthquakes had never occurred.
The Eastern Orthodox Church has a theology closer to mine than most of Christianity, but like you, it retains the benighted concepts of our ancestors' ignorance and beliefs in a wrathful God as unalterable dogma.
I have never in my life said Jehovah/YHWH/God/Allah was wrong ot in error. I said YOU are and you organization obviously is on several issues of policy. That should have been obvious from everything I have said.
You clearly stated you were against obeying the two witness rule. Fact is sir you are not interested, so there is no need for us to communicate.
If you have a legitimate question about our faith, I will be glad to help.
Prov 18:1 There is a big difference between isolating yourself from men, and not wanting to read false teachings. I don’t wish to offend you, but the track record of of prophesies coming from Jehovah’s Witnesses is very poor. I don’t think even you can deny them. As I told you, I try to study for myself, but when I am stumped, I will look at a variety of commentaries.
Isa. 2:2-3 They were in the last days when Jesus established His kingdom, the church, on Pentecost (Acts 2:16-17). “And this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
‘That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;’”
Matthew 24:45-47 I would love to have you explain who the wise and faithful servant is. Is it Joseph Smith? Matthew Henry? The Governing Body of Nehovah’s Witnesses? The Pope?
The key is in what was said about the slave, they feed Jesus' sheep. Who fits the bill during these last days maam? I personally see them as the governing body of Jehovah's witnesses. Do you know any other faith that is fed like we are?
You clearly stated you were against obeying the two witness rule. Fact is sir you are not interested, so there is no need for us to communicate.
If you have a legitimate question about our faith, I will be glad to help.
God didn't tell you to condone criminal behavior. Yet, that is exactly what you, and your organization are doing. Instead of addressing the real issue, you keep hiding behind the two witness rule, which obviously doesn't apply to criminal matters, but only to matters of faith.
There are a number of legitimate questions about your faith. You even started a thread inviting questions. For some reason, you quit answering questions. Instead of addressing questions asked of you with your own thoughts and reasoning, you simply cite Watchtower policy. That seems to be common among your members.
The key is in what was said about the slave, they feed Jesus' sheep. Who fits the bill during these last days maam? I personally see them as the governing body of Jehovah's witnesses. Do you know any other faith that is fed like we are?
There is no religious organization over others in Matthew 24:45-51. Claiming that the wise and faithful servant refers to the governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is reading way too much into the Scriptures.
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Nicely argued!
