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I know that, and I have. And Paul said this Church was to be led by prophets and apostles until we all became unified in our faith. Furthermore, he said that without this organization we'd be at the mercy of people who perverted true doctrines. He prophesied very plainly of an apostasy (or falling away) that would take place after his death. He was right on.
Hey Katz,
I followed this post up with a question in another thread.
Acts 1:16 Peter said Judas needed to be replaced in order to fulfill the Scripture spoken of by David through the Holy Spirit. “Let another take his office.” (Psalm 109:8). No other Apostle was ever replaced, including James, the brother of John, who was killed by the sword.
The eleven Apostles prayed and cast lots to learn who God would choose.
The two men they proposed had to have been with Jesus from the beginning, from His baptism to His ascension. They had to have been witnesses of Jesus’ resurrection.
RCC Popes would not qualify. Apostolic succession is false teaching based on one verse in the entire Bible and mainly on the fictitious traditions of Roman Catholicism.
If you mean it didn’t exist in one big book, you’re right. But you’re wrong if you think the word of God didn’t exist in the first century. It existed first in oral form, then later in written form. Scrolls were copied and circulated amongst the congregations that existed at the time. Can we agree on this much?
I meant that the canon of the bible did not exist in the first century. Of course there was already the Old Testament and oral tradition, along with tons of letters and oral traditions circulating that didn't end up in the canon of scripture.
I have never said nor do I believe that God's word didn't exist in the first century. But like I said before, (which is all I said before), the bible AS WE KNOW IT TODAY did not exist in the first century. Can we agree on this much?
Acts 1:16 Peter said Judas needed to be replaced in order to fulfill the Scripture spoken of by David through the Holy Spirit. “Let another take his office.” (Psalm 109:8). No other Apostle was ever replaced, including James, the brother of John, who was killed by the sword.
The eleven Apostles prayed and cast lots to learn who God would choose.
The two men they proposed had to have been with Jesus from the beginning, from His baptism to His ascension. They had to have been witnesses of Jesus’ resurrection.
RCC Popes would not qualify. Apostolic succession is false teaching based on one verse in the entire Bible and mainly on the fictitious traditions of Roman Catholicism.
Good - so you see that men 'did something' to cooperate with choosing Judas's replacement, fulfilling scripture,
just as they do today also fulfilling the scriptures:
"Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught..." (2 Thessalonians 2:15)
and
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith..." Ephesians 4:11-13
I'm truly sorry for you that you see this His given traditions as fictitious, when it's staring you right in the face in scripture.
Perhaps Irenaeus was thinking of you when he wrote in 180 AD his Chapter 2 of Book III.
I don't slander Jehovah/YHWH/God/Allah or any other name you'd like to call Him. It's simply a statement of fact that every time one of you hides behind a "two witness" rule for a serious crime for which two witnesses rarely exist, your are condoning the crime. Report the suspected crime to the police and let them figure it out. We're not talking about jaywalking here. We are talking about felonies. We are talking about people that do serious harm to children. Your posts imply that you don't care about that hurt, because, if you did, you would report the crimes, no if, and, or buts. Report the crimes.
Let me give you some advice sir, simply don't do it. If everyone wouldn't do it then it won't happen correct? In fact if everyone obeyed God it wouldn't happen, so instead of telling me Jehovah is in error, speak to Him about it. Fact is sir, although I agree with Jehovah that there needs to be a minimum of two witnesses to a serious crime, even if I didn't I couldn't do anything about it. You want to know something else? You won't be able to change His mind either.
From what you’ve written, it sounds like you disagreed with one or more of their teachings and did so in front of one or more people, who probably reported you. I find it very sad that if a person disagrees with the teachings of his group, disfellowship is used. That is not Scriptural. Disfellowship is to be used when someone is sinning publicly and refuses to repent. Disagreeing is not sinning. In the congregation I worship with, we are encouraged to speak up if we believe something is being taught that conflicts with God’s word. We sit with our elders and study whatever the disagreement is about. Most times, we can iron it out, but sometimes, we can’t. When that happens, we can simply agree to disagree. If it’s something someone feels so adamant about, they are free to go elsewhere, but never are they disfellowshipped for disagreeing. I commend you for standing up if you thought something was wrong.
As I said it is how you handle it, I spoke to elders about two things I disagreed and they told me point blank that does not make me an apostate. I asked those on the Judicial committee if I had taught anything we do not teach to 1 those at the door 2 to my brothers and sisters, and they said no. That is not the case. Again, I have not been told why I am an apostate. Doesn't matter anyway, each of us will answer for ourselves, we personally choose to serve Jehovah or not, no matter what position any human is in, I will never let them keep me from serving Jehovah. Only you personally can reject Him, no one can force you to. I fully believe if you make a vow to God, you had best keep it. Ecc 5:4
Nice speaking to you as well, and I appreciate the respectful conversation.
The tribulation Matthew speaks of is specific to the besiege of Jerusalem by the Romans, which eventually led to its destruction. He says in vs. 21, “For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
Have you studied the following phrases, and how they are used throughout the Scriptures? (The sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from heaven, the Son of man coming on the clouds)
If you have, I’d be interested in knowing what you learned.
We know the end will come without warning, like a thief in the night, and when it does, the heavens will be dissolved in fire and the elements will melt with fervent heat. Both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
The culminating of the great trib has not yet happened Kate, verse 22. We speculate on that, but until it actually happens we will not know for sure how these foretold events will literally present themselves. We are very certain however, that all will know who is behind their appearance, but we also believe that when they do know for sure, that it will be too late to jump on the "ark". Now is the time to live your life as if it were your last day. Those things may literally happen, but they can be symbolic as well.
Those terms have been used before in the Bible, if you would like to see the comparison I would be glad to post our understanding to the degree that we do understand it.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I should have said I don’t read links. Honestly, I try to stay away from commentaries as much as possible. I only go to them when I’m completely stumped. I prefer to study with just me and the Holy Spirit. I don’t want to be influenced by what men think. I had enough of that in the early years of my life, being raised and educated in Catholicism. One I was exposed to the Scriptures, I left that organization and never looked back. That was 44 years ago. My life is based totally on the word of God. It’s like the old saying, “ Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!”
Let me give you some advice sir, simply don't do it. If everyone wouldn't do it then it won't happen correct? In fact if everyone obeyed God it wouldn't happen, so instead of telling me Jehovah is in error, speak to Him about it. Fact is sir, although I agree with Jehovah that there needs to be a minimum of two witnesses to a serious crime, even if I didn't I couldn't do anything about it. You want to know something else? You won't be able to change His mind either.
I have never in my life said Jehovah/YHWH/God/Allah was wrong ot in error. I said YOU are and you organization obviously is on several issues of policy. That should have been obvious from everything I have said.
Prov 18:1 There is a big difference between isolating yourself from men, and not wanting to read false teachings. I don’t wish to offend you, but the track record of of prophesies coming from Jehovah’s Witnesses is very poor. I don’t think even you can deny them. As I told you, I try to study for myself, but when I am stumped, I will look at a variety of commentaries.
Isa. 2:2-3 They were in the last days when Jesus established His kingdom, the church, on Pentecost (Acts 2:16-17). “And this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
‘That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;’”
Matthew 24:45-47 I would love to have you explain who the wise and faithful servant is. Is it Joseph Smith? Matthew Henry? The Governing Body of Nehovah’s Witnesses? The Pope?
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