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The is only one interpretation. When a thorough study is done on any topic, and the whole counsel of God is looked at, the truth can be found. Sometimes it requires letting go of prior beliefs, and that’s not easy.
Actually, the first time I ever heard these terms was here on City-Data. I'm sure that your OP refers to the institutional Church, the Church Jesus Christ established. The invisible Church refers to all of Jesus' followers throughout the earth. Neither term is found in the Scriptures.
Yes, we can.
I can find no Scripture on either the invisible or institutional church.
The is only one interpretation. When a thorough study is done on any topic, and the whole counsel of God is looked at, the truth can be found. Sometimes it requires letting go of prior beliefs, and that’s not easy.
I think you meant that there is only one correct interpretation. On that, I'd agree.
If two people are both doing a thorough study, they both look at the whole counsel of God, yet come to a different conclusion on a particular topic, how can we decide who is right?
I think you meant that there is only one correct interpretation. On that, I'd agree.
If two people are both doing a thorough study, they both look at the whole counsel of God, yet come to a different conclusion on a particular topic, how can we decide who is right?
I haven’t come across a situation when studying with someone face to face that we didn’t agree on doctrine. Face to face study isn’t anything like what we experience on a forum. It’s a whole different ball game.
I haven’t come across a situation when studying with someone face to face that we didn’t agree on doctrine. Face to face study isn’t anything like what we experience on a forum. It’s a whole different ball game.
You ought to get out more! I've participated in many face to face discussions and Bible studies and have witnessed much disagreement!
That is a fallacy promoted by the Roman Catholic Church. The Old Testament Scriptures were here before Jesus built His church, and the New Testament Scriptures were recorded and circulated amongst the churches by the turn of the century.
I never claimed the sentence you bolded was from the Scriptures, but the church is the body of Christ, and when people believe and obey the gospel of Jesus Christ, they become the church, the body of Christ. When Peter preached the gospel for the first time on Pentecost 33 AD, 3000 souls believed and were baptized. The Lord added them to His church.
You’ve missed the point about the OP. It’s not about whether your church is the true church. It’s about whether people who follow the same pattern as those in the New Testament church are the body of Christ, the church Jesus built.
You quoted 1 Timothy 3:15 “…the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of truth.” I ask, who is the church? Is it the Pope? The Magisterium? Not according to Scripture it isn’t. The church is the body of Christ, all Christians, God’s people.
Great question!
Scripture shows us that Just as our Lord gave exacting dimensions for Noah's saving ark,
and exacting dimensions for the saving 'ark of the covenant' to the Jews,
Christ architected HIS church much more than just 'following a pattern',
giving exacting specifications for his saving church, including:
Certainly Christ cared for and organized his body...
"And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers,
to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ," Ephesians 4:11-13
Ejected the sitting authorities and appointed another...
(just as He once did with Eliakim in Isaiah 22:19-24, keys and all, even prophesying that Eliakim's line/peg would fail v.25 )... "And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 16:18-19
And he even being called father / 'pappa' / ('pope' in Latin), as Eliakim was... "He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah." Isaiah 22:21
Given specific instructions to steward HIS flock ...
"...“Feed my lambs.” ...
...“Tend my sheep.” ...
... “Feed my sheep." ... " John 21:15-17
Granted special graces to be an unfailing leader to Simon/Peter...
"but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers.” Luke 22:32
And promised that this/His church would never be overcome... or line fail as Eliakim's would @ Isa 22:25
"...and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it...." Matthew 16:18
And instructing all to obey the appointed authorities... "Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God.
Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves." Romans 13:1-2
And instructing all to DO as the Word instructs ...
"Be doers of the word and not hearers only, deluding yourselves.
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his own face in a mirror.
He sees himself, then goes off and promptly forgets what he looked like." James 1:23-24
And feeds His flock His very 'bread from heaven' , just as He once fed manna to the Hebrews in the desert to sustain them ... "...Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him." John 6:53-56
If these verses are what you mean by 'following a pattern' - the pattern set by scripture itself, then I guess we are in agreement.
If not, can you please detail what 'your pattern' is ??
That is a fallacy promoted by the Roman Catholic Church. The Old Testament Scriptures were here before Jesus built His church, and the New Testament Scriptures were recorded and circulated amongst the churches by the turn of the century.
I never claimed the sentence you bolded was from the Scriptures, but the church is the body of Christ, and when people believe and obey the gospel of Jesus Christ, they become the church, the body of Christ. When Peter preached the gospel for the first time on Pentecost 33 AD, 3000 souls believed and were baptized. The Lord added them to His church.
You’ve missed the point about the OP. It’s not about whether your church is the true church. It’s about whether people who follow the same pattern as those in the New Testament church are the body of Christ, the church Jesus built.
You quoted 1 Timothy 3:15 “…the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of truth.” I ask, who is the church? Is it the Pope? The Magisterium? Not according to Scripture it isn’t. The church is the body of Christ, all Christians, God’s people.
The pertinent part I see is about being a part of the body .....
One Body with Many Members
1Co 12:12**For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13**For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14**For the body is not one member, but many.
Each part is separated physically from the other parts, the eye, ear, foot, hand and that does not even go into the internal/private parts we don’t see like stomach, bowels, kidneys, nerves, tendons, etc
But all are connected to the brain to perform their very different duties, functions, administrations
Each part looks different, behaves differently, has its own individuality because of this very necessary division but all need to be co-coordinated for the benefit of the whole
1Co 12:28**And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29**Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30**Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31**But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1Co 13:4**Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5**Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6**Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7**Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Co 13:8**Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9**For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10**But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
Linking this back to the topic the church that Jesus built was not earthly, or in/of this world but it is connected to this world in a particular non-selfish, individualistic way
Mat 20:20**Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.
Mat 20:21**And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
Mat 20:22**But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Mat 20:23**And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give,but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Mat 20:24**And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
Mat 20:25**But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
Mat 20:26**But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27**And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Mat 20:28**Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
This is what the doctrine of the trinity is about father/son/Holy Spirit - son of God/son of man in one body by the Holy Spirit - and us individually composed of spirit/flesh being and existing as a living soul
Where's the doctrine defining or listing which books ought to be considered "Scripture"?
Very good question. And I notice that MissKate never really responded to my post describing the changes in the biblical canon over the years. Apparently some books were considered God-breathed at one point in time but not at another. I guess we've got the perfect Bible right now. (Naturally, I'm speaking of the Protestant Bible and not the one to which you Catholics apparently "added" the Apocrypha )
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