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I've said that it shouldn't be contradicted. The Bible claims to be God-breathed. If God breathed it, then it's perfect. He doesn't make mistakes.
Except for when he does...struggles with recalling numbers sometimes.
God sent Gad, to threaten David with how many years of famine?
(2) Samuel 24:13 SEVEN years of famine.
(1) Chron.: 21:12 THREE years of famine.
When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?
(1) Chron.: 18:4 David took SEVEN THOUSAND horsemen
(2) Samuel: 8:4 David took ONE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED horsemen
How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?
(I ) Kings 4:26: FORTY THOUSAND
(2) Chron: 9:25 FOUR THOUSAND
The Temple contained how many baths?
(1) Kings 7:26 – TWO THOUSAND baths.
(2) Chron. 4:5 – THREE THOUSAND baths
How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?
(2 )Kings 24:8 – EIGHTEEN years of age
(2) Chron. 36:9 EIGHT years of age
Thank you. I've mentioned this before, but I think it's valuable enough to mention again. In the study group /course for laity in which I participated, the second-year/New Testament group was discussing that week's reading, which including the story of the loaves and the fishes. Because we were not constrained to refrain from questioning the literalism of the story, someone brought up the obvious fact that it's impossible for five loaves and two fishes to have fed thousands of people, to which of course the stock fundamentalist answer is that Jesus could perform miracles, end of discussion.
But one woman in the group said she has thought about that story often, and she's wondered if it couldn't be taken as a metaphor for what Jesus was really doing that day--feeding souls--and that the story represents how the love of God can be multiplied beyond that which started as it gets passed on to more and more people. I thought that was a wonderful take, and I still do.
Maybe Jesus literally DID feed thousands with one small meal, maybe somebody made up a story, but what's more spiritually inspiring, the idea of God's love multiplying through loving one another or Jesus performing a magic trick?
Beautiful MQ - thanks for posting!
I was never really taught this, but have become aware that perhaps everything Jesus spoke has literal AND spiritual elements embedded within, and oftentimes multiple dimensions and interconnected intricacies, perhaps some of which we won't realize till we're face-to-face with Him!
I know what you said, and by saying that Heiser doesn't have a clue what he is talking about you are saying that the vast amount of scholarship with which Heiser agrees is wrong.
It's you who apparently don't know what a polemic is. A polemic is an argument against, or an attack on an opposing view or argument. The biblical writers engaged in polemics.
You are simply ignoring, and or rejecting the vast amount of scholarship which recognizes the fact that the Hebrew Bible was written by an ancient Near East people in an ancient Near East culture and that the Bible reflects that culture.
What it comes down to is that you can't accept the fact that God condescends to meet people where they are at. This means that God allowed the ancient Hebrews to write the story within the framework of their own culture and using their own errant conception of the cosmos. While you can't accept the fact that God allowed error into the Bible, the fact is that there is error in the Bible and scholarship outside of fundamentalist circles recognizes this.
You hold to a day-age model of creation in which each of the six creation days (God rested on the seventh day) is a long period of time, thousands or millions of years in length. This is an attempt to reconcile science and the Genesis creation accounts. This is both wrong and unnecessary because Genesis isn't speaking the same language as science. Genesis isn't doing science. It is doing Hebrew theology as a polemic against the other ancient Near East religions.
We have been over this in the past and I'm not going to spend time arguing about it again. You don't agree with Heiser and the other scholars who hold the same views. That doesn't mean that they don't have a clue what they are talking about. It means that you disagree with them probably because you think you have to protect biblical inerrancy. So believe as you will. I side with the scholarship which recognizes the Bible's relationship with it's ANE culture. I'm now done discussing this with you.
Heiser does not give a polemic mike. He says the jews as well as the rest of Mesopotamian believed the same things. The only difference is the jews said their God did it not the other Mesopotamian gods.
So tell me where the strong argument against the other Mesopotamian god views of creation is if they all believed the same thing.
Saying my God created everything and not your gods is NOT a polemic/strong argument against the Mesopotamian views.
I reject any scholarship that says Gods words are not true. Scripture tells us that the entirety of Gods words are true. You and your scholars say no they are not because God did not bother to correct the jewish view of creation.
I also noticed you did not even touch the other scripture i mentioned which speak about understanding the Godhead by the things that are made.
And i was not talking to you to begin with mike i was warning another poster about not following heiser to closely and you jumped in to defend your scholars.
Hopefully i gave enough here to show the other poster that heisers views along with the rest of your scholars views that agree with heiser that the entirety of Gods words are true and not as you and your scholars proclaim god did not care about telling the writers of the scriptures the truth.
Heiser does not give a polemic mike. He says the jews as well as the rest of Mesopotamian believed the same things. The only difference is the jews said their God did it not the other Mesopotamian gods.
So tell me where the strong argument against the other Mesopotamian god views of creation is if they all believed the same thing.
Saying my God created everything and not your gods is NOT a polemic/strong argument against the Mesopotamian views.
I reject any scholarship that says Gods words are not true. Scripture tells us that the entirety of Gods words are true. You and your scholars say no they are not because God did not bother to correct the jewish view of creation.
I also noticed you did not even touch the other scripture i mentioned which speak about understanding the Godhead by the things that are made.
And i was not talking to you to begin with mike i was warning another poster about not following heiser to closely and you jumped in to defend your scholars.
Hopefully i gave enough here to show the other poster that heisers views along with the rest of your scholars views that agree with heiser that the entirety of Gods words are true and not as you and your scholars proclaim god did not care about telling the writers of the scriptures the truth.
I said I'm done discussing this with you. We've been over it before and you're as wrong now as you were then.
I think you are right. That's where faith comes into play, I guess.
I liked Dr. Heiser's point in the video where he says God didn't correct "mistakes" made by the authors regarding the natural world, science or other topics that bother us today. He didn't haul them into the 21st century just to make sense to US. The supposed "mistakes" didn't obscure the underlying message to the original audience.
They just did not culturally have the precision mindset we insist on today. Stories were embellished, hyperbole was used extensively, different numbering systems were used and so forth.
IMO, the main difficulty is putting our modern selves in an ancient perspective. That's a lot of work and makes us uncomfortable to boot (like their slavery, sacrifices, etc.)
As Dr. Gregory Boyd likes to say "View all Scripture from a cross-centered lens. If it does not fit with Christ's message, "something else" must be going on."
I think that is what Mystic is saying too?
I have given you a different perspective then heiser so feel free to ask me any questions that pop up if you like. If not that is ok also we each have our own road to travel.
Me i tend to do my own thinking and not let others tell me what to think which does get me into hot water sometimes.
I have given you a different perspective then heiser so feel free to ask me any questions that pop up if you like. If not that is ok also we each have our own road to travel.
Me i tend to do my own thinking and not let others tell me what to think which does get me into hot water sometimes.
Everyone needs their own space pneuma, others are doing their own thinking but they need time and space to be able to do it
I was never really taught this, but have become aware that perhaps everything Jesus spoke has literal AND spiritual elements embedded within, and oftentimes multiple dimensions and interconnected intricacies, perhaps some of which we won't realize till we're face-to-face with Him!
The term inspiration means God-breathed. Paul wrote that all Scripture is inspired. Some say they don’t believe that all Scripture is God-breathed. My question is this:
How does one decide which Scriptures are God-breathed and which are not?.
The point is we don’t decide- both the inspiration and revelation are not under our personal control, all we can do is study, discern, prepare to get ourselves to a stage where we are ready to receive what is appropriate for where we are at and that will depend (and has always depended) on the “time” “season” “location” “ability” “gift” given
We all have different capacities
Eph 4:1**I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2**With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3**Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4**There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5**One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6**One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7**But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
1Co 12:2**Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
1Co 12:3**Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:4**Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5**And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6**And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7**But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8**For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9**To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10**To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11**But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
We should be looking at the purpose
2Ti 3:16**All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17**That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Last edited by Meerkat2; 11-21-2021 at 12:36 PM..
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