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Downtown Houston
Downtown San Antonio (they have made really nice upgrades the last 10 years)
West Campus
Downtown Galveston/Strand
Downtown Austin
Downtown Fort Worth
Downtown Dallas
All more urban than Uptown do dunno why that statement keeps getting thrown around. Heck even downtown El Paso is more urban than Uptown
You know maybe I should have been more clear. Outside of a downtown because Downtown should be a given in most American cities. I mean if your downtown is not the most densely populated area in a city than I don't know what to tell you. But OUTSIDE OF A DOWNTOWN I do believe Uptown Dallas is the most urban neighborhood in the state.
Now you can make a case for West Campus, But imo Uptown Dallas looks closer to what you'd fine in true urban centers than West Campus which is unique in the sense that UT is right there.
The old parking minimums and setback rules does take show up on the next block though with that suburban CVS unfortunately.
I really wish the Caydon development worked out for Midtown. Would have been massive start for that area and inspired a different development for the neighborhood. I would place Uptown Dallas ahead of Midtown Houston as of right now myself but I wouldn't say Uptown is more urban than Downtown Houston, Downtown Dallas, or West Campus in Austin.
The reason I didn't include that part of Midtown is because that block of urbanity is so damn small. I can literally run from one end of the block to the other in less than a minute before I end up at Cafe Layal where the urbanity of that block drops. And like you stated, you have the suburban style CVS on the other end of it. And just to clarify my statements I'm talking neighborhoods outside of a Downtown. I thought it was pretty much a given that a Downtown would be the most urban area of any city.
This really is "a tallest midget" contest or to make it relevant to Texas, "Who is the best ballerina in Galveston?" competition. There are many great things about Houston and DFW, and there are plenty reasons why they continue to grow so much and fast, but almost none of those reasons have anything to do with their urban streetscapes, which are truly lame in both places. There is not a stretch of Dallas or Houston that would crack the top 50 urban streetscapes in the U.S., and actually the top 100 might also be out of reach. Downtown Houston and downtown Dallas had much better urban streetscapes in the 1930s and 40s than they do today. So-called "urban renewal" and particularly highway construction effectively destroyed their urban cores, and much is now having to be undone to help them recover. Kyle Warren park in Dallas is a good example. What urbanity that exists in both places is TINY in terms of both area and population in relation to their respective MSAs.
I would say Deep Ellum in Dallas offers the best urban streetscape in Dallas. It is a neighborhood of mostly early twentieth century warehouses repurposed into an entertainment district so it is lively at night. It is better than Eado or the Third ward in Houston, which are still bombed out in parts. On the whole, even though I prefer Houston to Dallas- significantly better food, superior cultural institutions and universities and generally a lot more free-wheeling and sexy -I think for urban streetscapes Dallas might win by a hair. Uptown Dallas is a tad better than Midtown Houston on the urban streetscapes front- two many gaps in the latter. Bishop Arts is bit more lively than the Heights. Oaklawn is a tad more urban than Montrose. Both downtowns are still essentially high-rise office parks though they try. I would say the Galleria is a touch better than Uptown, but it is far from downtown Houston and is more of an edge city like Tyson's Corner in D.C.
Most of both MSAs are poster children for suburban sprawl, though there are truly spectacular neighborhoods of glorious 1920s mansions in both River Oaks and the Park cities which rival anything in Bellarie or Beverly Hills as long as you ignore the topography. In Texas, I would say Austin, San Antonio, and Forth Worth, while much smaller places, have better urban streetscapes than those to be found in either Dallas or Houston. While El Paso easily has the best scenery of any Texas city, unless you are counting Juarez, I am not seeing how it has better urban streetscapes than the other large Texas cities. Juarez, on the other hand, dodge as it has become over the last twenty years, has much better urban streetscapes than any Texas city.
You know what, I just realized you were responding to my post. And my first sentence was a typo. I meant to say Uptown Dallas is easily the most urban area in Texas. I know Uptown Houston is far from being the most urban area in Houston. It's pretty much an "urbanized" suburb.
And as much infill Houston's been doing for the past 20 years I still don't see Midtown Houston being as urban as Uptown Dallas in the foreseeable future. There's just too many big lots that resemble suburban infrastructure that kills a truly dense urban center.
I mean this is the most urban area of Midtown Houston and this pales in comparison to Uptown Dallas. If Houston wants Midtown to be comparable to Uptown Dallas TODAY than they have to change their entire mindset in how they approach development in the core.
............+1 Again!!!!...........I'm pleasantly confused Redlionjr.....You don't have to answer this but have you always viewed things like this for Dallas or is it because you've made a couple of recent trips to Dallas and took it in for what it is?...(Unbiasedly)......or is it something else?
This really is "a tallest midget" contest or to make it relevant to Texas, "Who is the best ballerina in Galveston?" competition. There are many great things about Houston and DFW, and there are plenty reasons why they continue to grow so much and fast, but almost none of those reasons have anything to do with their urban streetscapes, which are truly lame in both places. There is not a stretch of Dallas or Houston that would crack the top 50 urban streetscapes in the U.S., and actually the top 100 might also be out of reach. Downtown Houston and downtown Dallas had much better urban streetscapes in the 1930s and 40s than they do today. So-called "urban renewal" and particularly highway construction effectively destroyed their urban cores, and much is now having to be undone to help them recover. Kyle Warren park in Dallas is a good example. What urbanity that exists in both places is TINY in terms of both area and population in relation to their respective MSAs.
I would say Deep Ellum in Dallas offers the best urban streetscape in Dallas. It is a neighborhood of mostly early twentieth century warehouses repurposed into an entertainment district so it is lively at night. It is better than Eado or the Third ward in Houston, which are still bombed out in parts. On the whole, even though I prefer Houston to Dallas- significantly better food, superior cultural institutions and universities and generally a lot more free-wheeling and sexy -I think for urban streetscapes Dallas might win by a hair. Uptown Dallas is a tad better than Midtown Houston on the urban streetscapes front- two many gaps in the latter. Bishop Arts is bit more lively than the Heights. Oaklawn is a tad more urban than Montrose. Both downtowns are still essentially high-rise office parks though they try. I would say the Galleria is a touch better than Uptown, but it is far from downtown Houston and is more of an edge city like Tyson's Corner in D.C.
Most of both MSAs are poster children for suburban sprawl, though there are truly spectacular neighborhoods of glorious 1920s mansions in both River Oaks and the Park cities which rival anything in Bellarie or Beverly Hills as long as you ignore the topography. In Texas, I would say Austin, San Antonio, and Forth Worth, while much smaller places, have better urban streetscapes than those to be found in either Dallas or Houston. While El Paso easily has the best scenery of any Texas city, unless you are counting Juarez, I am not seeing how it has better urban streetscapes than the other large Texas cities. Juarez, on the other hand, dodge as it has become over the last twenty years, has much better urban streetscapes than any Texas city.
LMAO “tallest midget”.
I think Austin has greatly benefited from popping well after the new urbanist movement and not during the post modern era in Texas. Skyscrapers with no ground floor retail created an office park-y vibe NGL, which Austin fortunately avoided.
I do think Dallas could be further a long due to its size but I also see the nodes of urbanity finally being connected together. With the two way of McKinney and Cole Aves from Uptown into Knox happening soon. I think it’s gonna make it easier for pedestrians to walk. I’ve parked on McKinney Ave in the Knox area and seen cars speed like hell. I can’t really blame them, it’s kinda set up that way. The walkability isn’t bad but it can be off putting to people who want to feel safe. Uptown and Knox are already pretty seamless. There’s also 3 additional highrises/midrises planned on Knox in an already relatively dense area. Knox St turns into Henderson Ave, which has development plans for all the lots down to Lower Greenville. Henderson Ave is very narrow with only one lane in each direction. If all competed, there will be continuous urban development from Knox-Henderson to Lower Greenville. Also from Lower Greenville to downtown via Ross Ave/Live Oak St, that’s gentrifying in Old East Dallas with urban developments.
Remind me again of why we are comparing Uptown Dallas to MIDtown Houston...instead of UPTOWN Houston??
Shouldn't Midtown be compared to Deep Ellum or the like?
The Uptowns of both cities are two different types of neighborhoods. The Houston one serves more of the function of what an edge city would. Midtown Houston doesn't seem to have a lot in common with Deep Ellum as it has a lot of historical urbanism throughout.
Remind me again of why we are comparing Uptown Dallas to MIDtown Houston...instead of UPTOWN Houston??
Shouldn't Midtown be compared to Deep Ellum or the like?
The only thing Uptown Dallas and Uptown Houston have in common is the word uptown. It makes perfect sense to compare midtown Houston to uptown Dallas. Perhaps Deep Ellen best compares to East Downtown in Houston or maybe areas west of Downtown Houston.
The only thing Uptown Dallas and Uptown Houston have in common is the word uptown. It makes perfect sense to compare midtown Houston to uptown Dallas. Perhaps Deep Ellen best compares to East Downtown in Houston or maybe areas west of Downtown Houston.
Lol...okay...then what in Dallas compares to Uptown Houston (this should be good)?
Lol...okay...then what in Dallas compares to Uptown Houston (this should be good)?
The closest thing I think would be the DNT corridor, but the two cities aren't exactly set-up the same. Uptown Houston is much more dominant to Houston than the DNT corridor is to Dallas. Both have Gallerias, a bunch of restaurants and such, but Uptown Houston has a lot more buildings as the DNT corridor is restricted in high rise development due to the Addison Executive Airport (World's busiest jetport). Also, the DNT corridor is getting a rail line (Silver Line) and has Addison Circle which is more akin to Midtown Houston than Uptown Houston in urban design.
I think Austin has greatly benefited from popping well after the new urbanist movement and not during the post modern era in Texas. Skyscrapers with no ground floor retail created an office park-y vibe NGL, which Austin fortunately avoided. .
I know. I love how the Austin guys come in here talking mess about what is urban and what isn't.
Come back in about 30-40 years...maybe Austin will have caught up to Houston and Dallas by then? I doubt it though...takes more than tall buildings to make a great city.
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......+1 Again!!!!...........I'm pleasantly confused Redlionjr
.....You don't have to answer this but have you always viewed things like this for Dallas or is it because you've made a couple of recent trips to Dallas and took it in for what it is?...(Unbiasedly)......or is it something else?
