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Old 03-26-2015, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,515 posts, read 3,686,396 times
Reputation: 6403

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydive Outlaw View Post
The fact that a policy like that would even need to exist concerns me, because it is almost an admission by the airlines that they are not completely sure that the pilots they have flying their planes should be left in the cockpit alone at any point in time. Yet they are entrusted with taking off and landing planes with a large number of people on them.
r.


It has more to do with being prudent and planning for all possibilities, such as the pilot having a medical emergency or passing out due to the cabin being depressurized, any number of things that perhaps having a second person in the cockpit could help protect against.


If your pilot leaves and the co-pilot has a heart attack or something else happens that renders them incapacitated, it certainly doesn't hurt to have a second individual in there to assess the situation and go get the other flight officer or at minimum make sure that they can get back into the cockpit.


It used to be standard to have three people in the cockpit, the pilot, co-pilot and a navigator or flight engineer. Ensuring that there are always at least two in there is just smart policy.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,025 posts, read 15,343,192 times
Reputation: 8153
Quote:
Originally Posted by erjunkee View Post
This is interesting.

Was the pilot going to the rest room a predictable act?

Did the co-pilot have an alternative plan, in the event that the pilot did not leave to presumably use the lavoratory?

Had they flown on flights together before, and had this particular pilot always gotten up and left after reaching altitude?

I'm just thinking about this...
I just had two equally disturbing thoughts regarding this. Either he decided, at that exact, spur of the moment, to go murderously insane and kill 150, including himself, or, even scarier, had decided a while before this to do this act and co-piloted several flights waiting for the right chance to pull this off. Can you imagine if it was scenario #2, being a pilot, flight attendant, or passenger on a flight this guy may have just co-piloted, realizing how close you came to this being you? Can you imagine flying w/ this guy to Barcelona and not noticing him potentially plotting to take out his return flight? It's like being on a plane that's slowly falling apart right before the fatal flight where it finally did fall apart.

God, the hindsight would drive me insane...
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Old 03-27-2015, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
11,655 posts, read 12,947,993 times
Reputation: 6386
How come MH17 had bodies dabbled here and there, but in this one everything was in pieces?
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Old 03-27-2015, 12:27 AM
 
9,408 posts, read 11,929,707 times
Reputation: 12440
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
A problem with trying to determine if a pilot is psychologically well is that if he admits to a problem, he doesn't have a job! As it should be, but still, probable job loss is a deterrent to admitting that you're having trouble.
The FAA used to have a blanket policy of no mental issues allowed, at all, ever, no exceptions. Even if someone was on ritalin for a month as a child, they'd be disqualified for life. So those who had/have issues them either a) left it untreated, or b) treated it but never said a word. So people would work anyway despite having issues. It's a hard lifestyle that does take a toll some. FAA finally figured out they'd rather people be treated instead of not, so there's a small list of mental issues allowed on a case by case basis. They still have to jump through many very tight 'hoops' though, which makes meeting their criteria very difficult, so the problem still exists. Also airlines do issue thorough psych exams during screening, with some even using one-on-one interviews with a psychologist. I don't know what the European protocols are, however.

Bottom line is there is no sure fire way to protect against such events. Even removing pilots all together wouldn't do so. Fortunately such events are incredibly rare.
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Old 03-27-2015, 01:31 AM
 
2,369 posts, read 2,911,914 times
Reputation: 1145
I used to love flying as a kid, but after my compound fracture from jumping off a roof.. nope. I now fear flying(and heights in general), but I especially fear any non American flying. the FAA is way better than anything in the world. hell, look at the Europeans. they just now implement(some, not all) a mandatory of 2 ppl in the cockpit?

as much as I love my family, theres no way im going to south America. I rather pay AA 3x the price than some low cost, low budget south American airline IF I even bother flying down there for her wedding.

the worst part about this compare to Malaysian airlines: we can have cooks in pilot/copilot and who would stop them? what if both are crazy or worse: the crazy kills the non crazy pilot? we are F'ed.
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Old 03-27-2015, 02:41 AM
 
1,994 posts, read 1,519,986 times
Reputation: 2924
Captain leaves cockpit. Co-pilot feels immediately ill, severe pain in his head. He begins descent. He can't speak. He reaches to unlock cabin door
. The pain was the onset of a brain aneurysm. He instead locks door. Ever witness some with a brain aneurysm? Ugly thing but they don't die immediately, they breathe on for a while. He sits in his seat, incapacitated. Plane eventually crashes.
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Old 03-27-2015, 03:33 AM
 
5,790 posts, read 5,103,944 times
Reputation: 8003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year2525 View Post
Captain leaves cockpit. Co-pilot feels immediately ill, severe pain in his head. He begins descent. He can't speak. He reaches to unlock cabin door
. The pain was the onset of a brain aneurysm. He instead locks door. Ever witness some with a brain aneurysm? Ugly thing but they don't die immediately, they breathe on for a while. He sits in his seat, incapacitated. Plane eventually crashes.
This is why it's so important to find other clues and evidence in his apartment ground site etc. At this point, the only sure thing is that he was in the cabin and he was alive when the plane went down. It's also sure that someone manually set the flight to change to 100 ft. All motives at this point are conjecture that are conclusions drawn from just a few real facts. I would hate for his surviving parents to bear the burden of having a mass killing son, let alone the families of the victims who must deal with their loved ones meeting a senseless death. So it's only fair that the investigation is absolutely and painstakingly thorough.

By the way, if this co-pilot can be so cool and suppose he did this, then it's entirely possible that the two Malaysian pilots of MA 370 also committed a mass killing of their whole flight.
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Old 03-27-2015, 05:02 AM
 
3,762 posts, read 5,422,324 times
Reputation: 4832
Why do so few have a need to find an excuse for this co-pilot? He murdered 149 people.
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Old 03-27-2015, 05:16 AM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,656 posts, read 28,670,889 times
Reputation: 50525
I just heard on the news that the investigators have taken something from his home that is very telling as to what the situation was. That's all they said but the truth will probably come out. My hope is that something is learned from this truth and that measures of some sort will be taken in the future to further reduce the chances of something like this happening again. Of course, it will never be perfect, but there certainly is room for improvement.
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Old 03-27-2015, 05:30 AM
 
5,790 posts, read 5,103,944 times
Reputation: 8003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year2525 View Post
Captain leaves cockpit. Co-pilot feels immediately ill, severe pain in his head. He begins descent. He can't speak. He reaches to unlock cabin door
. The pain was the onset of a brain aneurysm. He instead locks door. Ever witness some with a brain aneurysm? Ugly thing but they don't die immediately, they breathe on for a while. He sits in his seat, incapacitated. Plane eventually crashes.
Can this person suffering onset brain aneurysm reach up and reset the dial for altitude change from 30,000 plus feet to a mere 100 feet? This is what I want to know. Is there such a possibility? Anyone?
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