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Old 06-03-2017, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
6,465 posts, read 3,521,203 times
Reputation: 7955

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProf View Post
Giant mass transit system? Not necessarily. Decent for a city Detroit's size should be the more immediate goal, which means some kind of true rapid transit and 1 or 2 regional rail lines, like the planned New Center-to-Ann Arbor route.... Your mentality, which obviously is shared by the powers that be in Greater Detroit, is a prescription for perpetual mediocrity and, on many levels, failure. Detroiters have got to get out of the fantasy that the City can be successful freeways alone. Ain't happenin'. To quote you: get used to it.
Arthur's mentality reflects the entire culture of the Metro Detroit area. That lack of imagination is what keeps it stuck in the early 1970s. Conservative, conventional, insular, myopic. I never could relate to it; don't understand it.
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:10 AM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,800,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Arthur's mentality reflects the entire culture of the Metro Detroit area. That lack of imagination is what keeps it stuck in the early 1970s. Conservative, conventional, insular, myopic. I never could relate to it; don't understand it.
While Arthur's mentality for transit is far too common in the area it hardly reflects the ENTIRE metro Detroit area. The latest transit bill was neck and neck as far as votes go (with Macomb co being the dealbreaker) and experts even said that when most people in the area heard of the plans benefits that it changed their attitude, thus if the transit plan was a little better (let's face it, it was half baked but I was still for it) and they spread the info across to voters, most people in Metro Detroit would likely vote for it. So no, the attitude for transit has gotten much better over the years and it is not reflective of the entire region.
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Old 06-04-2017, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
6,465 posts, read 3,521,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
While Arthur's mentality for transit is far too common in the area it hardly reflects the ENTIRE metro Detroit area. The latest transit bill was neck and neck as far as votes go (with Macomb co being the dealbreaker) and experts even said that when most people in the area heard of the plans benefits that it changed their attitude, thus if the transit plan was a little better (let's face it, it was half baked but I was still for it) and they spread the info across to voters, most people in Metro Detroit would likely vote for it. So no, the attitude for transit has gotten much better over the years and it is not reflective of the entire region.
Perhaps the attitude for transit is becoming more open, but I wasn't talking about that, specifically. I was talking about the entire CULTURE of the Metro Detroit area. A lack of passenger transportation in a city and region of its size, in the 21st century, is merely one symptom of a much broader, deeper condition.

If you've lived there your entire life, or most of your life, you might not know what I'm talking about. Most outsiders, though, especially if they come from another large but more dynamic area, notice it immediately. It was something I could never adjust to.
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Old 06-04-2017, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
1,277 posts, read 1,071,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Perhaps the attitude for transit is becoming more open, but I wasn't talking about that, specifically. I was talking about the entire CULTURE of the Metro Detroit area. A lack of passenger transportation in a city and region of its size, in the 21st century, is merely one symptom of a much broader, deeper condition.

If you've lived there your entire life, or most of your life, you might not know what I'm talking about. Most outsiders, though, especially if they come from another large but more dynamic area, notice it immediately. It was something I could never adjust to.

Doubtful that you are familiar with the entire culture of the Detroit metro area. Did you live in all cities here?
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Old 06-04-2017, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 4,800,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
Perhaps the attitude for transit is becoming more open, but I wasn't talking about that, specifically. I was talking about the entire CULTURE of the Metro Detroit area. A lack of passenger transportation in a city and region of its size, in the 21st century, is merely one symptom of a much broader, deeper condition.

If you've lived there your entire life, or most of your life, you might not know what I'm talking about. Most outsiders, though, especially if they come from another large but more dynamic area, notice it immediately. It was something I could never adjust to.
Well the history of the region would explain alot. Most regions didn't try to literally recreate their city in the burbs after white flight just so they wouldn't have to go into the city anymore which created an overwhelming amount of tension. BUT this is not the entire culture of the Metro Detroit area and hasn't been for the past decade or 2. Downtown, Royal Oak, Brighton, Dearborn, Grosse Ile, Ferndale, Ann Arbor, Novi, Birmingham, Taylor, Southfield, ect are all different culturally. There is no one mindset across the entire region, talk to most people in Howell or Bloomfield or Macomb about transit and then talk to most people in Ann Arbor or downtown or even Dearborn and see how different the reactions are.
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:20 PM
 
124 posts, read 108,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
Well the history of the region would explain alot. Most regions didn't try to literally recreate their city in the burbs after white flight just so they wouldn't have to go into the city anymore which created an overwhelming amount of tension.
lol this blatant lie, every major city in the country experienced significant white flight, exurban office centers and sprawled development.
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Idaho
2,692 posts, read 2,511,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
I wonder how much GM paid him for that article. Analyze what they are saying, and you may see some holes in their logic.

"Buses replaced streetcars becasue buses do not require rails which are expensive to install, and that is why we tore out all the already existing rails (where we had the clout to make that happen, while rail transportation proceeded to do just fine where we did not tear out the rails). This is a story some executive thought up in their office after too much coffee and failed to think it through fully. They are also missing the explanation for why cities are now replacing the rail systems that were torn out. In fact, in Detroit, they put the new rails right over the top of the old ones there were buried in pavement (and could have still been in use if they had not been buried in pavement. We still have buses. In fact, buses are better than ever before. Rails are still way way more expensive than buses.

Did they personally tear out the lines? No they worked politically to ensure the lines were not adopted by public agencies and expanded. That they did to receive subsidies to keep them going, and that the removal of the lines was approved. With the rail lines still in place mostly int he public right of way, there was a risk someone would bring them back. Tear them out, cover them up, build things in the right of way and you guarantee they are gone forever, or at least for several decades.

Was it Evil Gm? No. Tire companies were heavily influential as were all the auto companies, second and third tier suppliers, gasoline companies, and others.
You do realize that many of these so called trolley cars had RUBBER tires mounted to steel wheels and received power via two overhead wires. I rode the Grand River line in Detroit when I was a kid and can remember them to this day.

As for Detroit, the best thing about it is there is always a road out. However, I am a bit cynical. I grew up in Detroit back in the 50s and 60s, at least till I graduated from Cooley HS; 1966; at which time I went into the service. I did end up coming back, but after college (Wayne State) I liked to say I escaped to other parts of the world and eventually to other states. Being transferred (thanks to Uncle Sam) back to Detroit in 2005, I finally escaped with retirement in 2008 and have never looked back.
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Old 06-04-2017, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
6,465 posts, read 3,521,203 times
Reputation: 7955
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkeith View Post
Doubtful that you are familiar with the entire culture of the Detroit metro area. Did you live in all cities here?
Have you lived in all cities there?

Lived in Farmington Hills from '97 to 2011. Completed my graduate degree downtown. Worked in Farmington, Farmington Hills, West Bloomfield, Plymouth, and Livonia. Belonged to groups (and so did my kids) and had other obligations that regularly took us into Bloomfield Hills, Birmingham, Southfield, Novi, Rochester Hills, Milford, etc.

I think living in a place for 14 years, raising kids, volunteering, going to school, socializing, etc, for 14 years gives one a pretty good sense of the overall culture of it. Besides, it was something we noticed very quickly after moving there from the Toronto area.

The only city that I would not count in my assessment, and I've said this before, is Ann Arbor. I could have happily lived there, but it was too far from my husband's job.
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Old 06-04-2017, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
1,277 posts, read 1,071,638 times
Reputation: 1544
Having moved here from New York state, I would have to disagree. I don't find that anything about the "culture" necessarily unusual here. There is a lack of practical mass transit, and plenty of people agree. On the other hand, snobbery can be found everywhere, in any state.

Last edited by mgkeith; 06-04-2017 at 07:28 PM..
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Old 06-04-2017, 08:18 PM
 
292 posts, read 204,236 times
Reputation: 309
I have to agree with you Newdixiegirl except for one thing. The real longtime residents do go on vacation and they see that until recently this is a area that is truly dysfunctional (I hope the sickness doesn't start again with Detroit rebounding). They like to point the finger at Detroit for decades but as you pointed out their are some serious issues in the North and West suburbs too, the ones that they say are so great. You can't have culture when you are too busy fighting each other.
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