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Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff
Ok, if I'm missing it, then please explain.
If the trades are such great jobs, then why isn’t trade school more heavily promoted ?
Sounds like a leading question, but one that cannot be answered on a C-D education forum, highly populated by 'has-been' career educators. They know little about the trades, and the educational / experience path to get there. Career educators have experienced a very narrow path that presumably worked well for them and often provides a pension they depend upon (thus, keep the scam alive)
Also note the condescending wording... "If the trades are such great jobs,..."
Truth is... Trades CAN be a great and prosperous career, as can academia. But the two are on different routes.
The statement (topic) as inferred isn't expecting an answer, and certainly not gonna entertain a rational discussion. (that's very typical for EDU and also C-D forums.)
Narrow minds think alike, it's very profitable in academia..
Trade SCHOOL! Who needs school?. Many trades are OJT (starting in HS or entry level). Some trades (very few) have formal apprenticeships. Private trade SCHOOLS spend millions on promoting themselves (but Trade School does not equal a career or skillset. It is ONE path, and often a very expensive path with nominal results (poor placement / entry level after graduation anyway, (sounds like college) so student should have just taken the grunt job at age 16, and worked their way into a better position. While I served an apprenticeship (that required college level courses, NOT trade school), I also was working a parallel path of OJT in 2 other skilled trades occupations while serving my apprenticeship. 24 hrs in a day, sleep is optional, being young is a good time to fill up your 'future' toolbox.
Last edited by StealthRabbit; 06-24-2023 at 01:16 AM..
What proportion of young Americans would be studying in trade schools?
Here it seems about 15% are in TAFE, which covers a multitude of courses. Many are part-time with on the job experience required.
Whether you work as a plumber or as a doctor, the key to success is running your business well.
This is where the center of the discussion breaks. Academically a 4 year degree is higher than a 2 year degree which is higher than a tech school certificate which is higher than a high school diploma and so forth. The break down is whether the academic level of an education matters vs the "fit" of the education to the individual. Does the academic level matter as much to an individual seeking a future path matter as much as the appropriateness?
Trying to aim everyone toward the top of the academic ranking system means that at least 2/3 of the student population will be aiming toward the wrong target for them as individuals. That would be just as poor an outcome as aiming for the bottom. For example, I can weld. Sort of. As in put two pieces of metal together with a big ugly glob of slag. But I recognize that is not my talent. There are however plenty of guys who can weld like an artist. They can join exotic materials in a way that you can't find the seam. And I highly respect their talent.
Outside of academia, my degrees are no higher level than their certifications. Nor the machinists, pipefitters, electricians and so forth. We are all part of the team, each with a different part to play. My talents are worthless without them.
That's why I think schools are aiming wrong when they push the everyone must go to college mantra. We need to recognize that there are different talents and educate students to maximize their individual talent. Schools used to do that. At least in our state the last few years they are starting to swing back toward that model.
I don’t disagree, but it’s also not a binary of college OR trade schools. As has been discussed in the doctor thread, there are plenty of allied health fields that pay relatively well and only require a two-year degree - PT assistant, radiology technicians (who have a lot of potential for specialization with on-the-job training), dental hygienists.
I do think SR has a point about trade schools often being expensive, but unfortunately the apprenticeship track really depends on the area and how much union support they have to encourage this type of training. I am in Chicagoland now and the apprentice tracks seem to be going strong with the various tradesmen I have hired to do stuff in my home. I have also seen union buildings advertising that they are willing to hire/train apprentices. In FL, forget about it. I remember talking to someone at some point about how her brother wanted to go into becoming a mechanic and it was taking him a year or two just to get off the waitlist to go to the local public option instead of having to pay $$$ for some marginal private school.
Nobody is doing any restricting. We're talking about equal marketing of opportunities instead of marketing only one thing.
Seventy percent of people never get a bachelor's degree, and it's not a matter of not having the money. They know by the end of the 9th grade that they're not interested in an academic profession. But we don't market technical training to those kids even though they're the majority of the market. They're essentially ignored and wind up having wasted their high school years muddling through a watered-down college prep curriculum when they could have been hammering a "tech-prep" curriculum.
It's a restriction that occurs when you keep kids at a lower level.
No, you just need to go back and reread my post(s) with an open mind.
I'd much rather you state explicitly what you mean rather than I assume from what you implied. Wouldn't want you to think I was putting words in your mouth.
I don’t disagree, but it’s also not a binary of college OR trade schools. As has been discussed in the doctor thread, there are plenty of allied health fields that pay relatively well and only require a two-year degree - PT assistant, radiology technicians (who have a lot of potential for specialization with on-the-job training), dental hygienists.
I do think SR has a point about trade schools often being expensive, but unfortunately the apprenticeship track really depends on the area and how much union support they have to encourage this type of training. I am in Chicagoland now and the apprentice tracks seem to be going strong with the various tradesmen I have hired to do stuff in my home. I have also seen union buildings advertising that they are willing to hire/train apprentices. In FL, forget about it. I remember talking to someone at some point about how her brother wanted to go into becoming a mechanic and it was taking him a year or two just to get off the waitlist to go to the local public option instead of having to pay $$$ for some marginal private school.
I'm I don't think anyone is being that specific about trade school when they say "trade school" in these discussions as to intend to exclude all the other various good jobs that require post-secondary training short of a bachelor's degree.
It's a restriction that occurs when you keep kids at a lower level.
Nobody is talking about "keeping" kids at a lower level.
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