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Old 06-26-2023, 11:08 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,624 posts, read 57,620,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
. But let's face it, a number of our posters don't want student choice; they want their vision of higher education.
or... as per https://www.city-data.com/forum/65455045-post410.html
"The answer, I'm afraid... rests with the student (as it always has in USA)."
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Old 06-26-2023, 11:25 AM
 
28,575 posts, read 18,611,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
It certainly wouldn’t be my recommendation, but it allows some folks to explore multiple areas of interest and/or can allow for a smooth transition into a variety of fields. That said, most are able to complete such in far less time than your niece i.e. it’s about her ridiculous waste of time (ten years) more than anything, here. I find it odd you (continue to) blame the college for her choice and (lack of) aptitude.
What are they paying the counselors for?

Second: A General Studies degree is useless. Sorry, no, Bachelor of Science is varied enough.
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Old 06-26-2023, 11:27 AM
 
28,575 posts, read 18,611,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You're right. General studies at the Bachelor's level allows students all sorts of options at the graduate level.
No, it doesn't. They have Bachelors of Arts and Bachelors of Science degrees for that.
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Old 06-26-2023, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,306 posts, read 23,903,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
No, it doesn't. They have Bachelors of Arts and Bachelors of Science degrees for that.
Not all young people know which direction they want to go in. And within the general degree there is plenty of room to take specific courses that can serve them well when they do choose.

But why is it that you think you should dictate what degrees are offered. Why isn't it the choice of the student. What gives you the authority to speak for that student that wants that degree?
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Old 06-26-2023, 12:38 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,624 posts, read 57,620,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Not all young people know which direction they want to go in. ..
The students could consider 1st getting j-o-b in their chosen field (entry level for exposure to the industry)

Works at least two ways:
1. I hate this field! (find out sooner than later)
2. This is a great choice, and now I know the proper steps (and mentors) to acheive my goals.


Beats fast food / filler jobs.

Main benefit... the employer is likely to support the student with flex hours, assignments and tuition assistance. Graduate WAY ahead of your peers (with relevant experience).
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Old 06-26-2023, 12:51 PM
 
28,575 posts, read 18,611,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
The students could consider 1st getting j-o-b in their chosen field (entry level for exposure to the industry)

Works at least two ways:
1. I hate this field! (find out sooner than later)
2. This is a great choice, and now I know the proper steps (and mentors) to acheive my goals.


Beats fast food / filler jobs.

Main benefit... the employer is likely to support the student with flex hours, assignments and tuition assistance. Graduate WAY ahead of your peers (with relevant experience).
That's why the GI Bill is so successful.
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Old 06-26-2023, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,306 posts, read 23,903,054 times
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All of these universities have general studies degrees: https://blog.collegevine.com/us-coll...-studies-major

And a general studies degree doesn't mean that there is no emphasis on areas such as health, business, social science, education, technology, or other areas. Additionally, many students start working toward a general studies degree, but then switch degrees as they begin to become more firm in their interests.

Again, it comes down to student choice...not the choice of certain posters here.
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Old 06-26-2023, 03:09 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,507 posts, read 3,746,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
What are they paying the counselors for?
School counselors assist students in career exploration and realistically assess the preparedness (or likelihood of success) re: the pursuit of specific career paths. To that end, vocational schools are promoted (and relevant) to some students; however, it’s nonsensical to assume they should be ‘heavily promoted’, per the thread title, amongst the general student population. Obviously, academically-elite universities aren’t ’promoted’ either; the majority of students are going to fall somewhere in the middle and/or have no idea their career choice right-off-the-bat.
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Old 06-26-2023, 03:20 PM
 
12,646 posts, read 8,868,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I would state it more bluntly -- it's a bias against a well-educated soceity. There is value to having a well-educated society.

Are there nations that have more options to young people?:
1. They can quit high school.
2. They can graduate from high school.
3. They can change their mind if they drop out and get a GED.
4. They can go to a community college.
5. They can go to a "trade school".
6. They can go to a public college/university.
7. They can go to a private college/university.
8. They can attend schools abroad.

The choices are unlimited.
More than 9 million American students attend community college, and most community colleges have trade-related options.
Trade-school enrollment has risen, from 9.6 million students in 1999 to 16 million in 2014. (couldn't find more recent data in my quick search).
14 million students attend a 4 year college.

Most of the people moaning and groaning in this thread are complaining from a political perspective, and nothing more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I can't imagine a country where students have more varied choices than they have here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You're right. General studies at the Bachelor's level allows students all sorts of options at the graduate level. But let's face it, a number of our posters don't want student choice; they want their vision of higher education.
All those statements do make a convenient excuse to avoid looking deeper, don't they? Could you consider that there is validity to the criticisms or is it just easier to dismiss them as being political or biased or anything other than valid?

How many choices do high schoolers really have while still in school? How informed are they about those choices?

No one is arguing about trade school/CC enrollment post high school. The topic is whether the high school is preparing kids for that enrollment or are they being prepared for college with the alternatives only after failure on the college path?
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Old 06-26-2023, 05:55 PM
 
28,575 posts, read 18,611,625 times
Reputation: 30812
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
School counselors assist students in career exploration and realistically assess the preparedness (or likelihood of success) re: the pursuit of specific career paths. To that end, vocational schools are promoted (and relevant) to some students; however, it’s nonsensical to assume they should be ‘heavily promoted’, per the thread title, amongst the general student population. Obviously, academically-elite universities aren’t ’promoted’ either; the majority of students are going to fall somewhere in the middle and/or have no idea their career choice right-off-the-bat.
Of course they should be. The majority of students are not going to college. Unless other possibilities of advanced training are promoted often an early, they end up with nothing at all...which is what is happening to most high school graduates today.

Most students are not going to college and most of those not going to college are not being directed to post-secondary training.
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