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Old 10-22-2017, 12:10 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
Reputation: 9092

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selen View Post
Members of US Supreme court are appointed for life. Even that is a sample of seperation of powers.It may not be completely enough, but it is better than the government being able to threaten the justices.
The supreme Court justices are irrelevant to people who are struggling just to live.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Ankara, Turkey
400 posts, read 292,701 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
The supreme Court justices are irrelevant to people who are struggling just to live.
I don’t think living in a tyranny where the tyrant is allowed to kill you if you look at him funny is living either.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:14 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Today you bleed for poor freezing Ukrainian people you wanted dead yesterday. How amusing. Before the Russian agression Donbass regional bosses forged a new post soviet identity among their peons on the grounds that Donbass works and feeds Ukraine at the time when lazy western Ukrainians etc. strike and cause trouble. After agression it became clear that Donbass fed regional mafia not Ukraine. Its outdated industry and mines required subsidies and illegal schemes to generate output, to be looted by a few, at substantional costs to environment and people inside and out of Donetsk region. So just remember all things considered American coal can be cheaper just like plastic Chinese junk in your friendly neighbourhood store is cheaper than made in USA junk.
Could you please refrain from doing that in public? Do it in the closet or under your bed sheets at night.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:20 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,590,027 times
Reputation: 7457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Blah blah blah. Personal freedom blah blah blah wealth blah blah blah. Show me a German citizen that can just walk off his job tomorrow because he doesn't want to slave at the factory anymore. Show me an American woman who has a choice of whether she can stay home and be a mom to her kids.

I'm quite sure there are a few people in the world that can do this so you'll throw out some drivel with some statistics that show everyone can do that and yeah you're right. The mother can live with her kids in a freaking car at Walmart and depend on charity and the German factory worker can move to the Mediterranean coast and sleep on the beach.

The truth is the vast majority of people in the west have little if any freedom. Western societies are tread mills with people chained to them. Most people work until the day they die and have little to give to their children when they die.

The democracies of the west are little different from the Feudal societies Eurpeans have known for centuries. Western people's have no more freedom than a person in Russia or China.

Stop trying to bullchit us. We live here.
If comrade Scrat learned some Soviet history not from Russian nazi sources he would know that Soviet union pushed wage slavery to the extreme.
Thus western wage slavery looks like freedom indeed if compared to the soviet variety of thereof. Post soviet Russian regime (post soviet regimes in general) took away whatever little protection later days ussr offered to its wage slaving masses and substituted that with unsubsidized fear of the corrupt law enforcement working together with bonafide mafioso, so again western variety of wage slavery looks like freedom. Comrade scrat dissatisfaction is understandable only for somebody who takes whatever comrade scrat has for granted. People residing in much of former USSR cannot relate to comrade scrat' pain because it appears quite insignificant looking from their trenches.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:27 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,590,027 times
Reputation: 7457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Could you please refrain from doing that in public? Do it in the closet or under your bed sheets at night.
You are clinging to the nonsensical views no matter facts and reason because why? Getting some perverted self help by means of weaving an alternative cocoon or it is something else? Talk it out. You use the topic of Ukraine to channel your personal frustrations for quite some time and yet your condition doesnt show any signs of improvement.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,801,188 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
"has been shown" "undoubted shown"... how? no, it is only western media talking every day. Nothing showed nothing. Again Hitler was elected democratically.
Shown by every statistic anywhere. The wealthiest and most stable countries are all liberal democracies.

No, Hitler wasn't. The nazi party was a part of a coalition and was appointed chancellor, and then he took dictatorial power after a false flag operation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Of course India is going forward, but do you care explain why 20 years ago China's per capita GDP is only 200$ more, today it is 5400$ more? And why China has moved forward a lot more in almost all tangible aspects? These are two very comparable countries, similar population, similar colonization history, similar poverty before.
Different prerogatives. India might be poorer, but it hasn't sacrificed their human rights for economic success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Taiwan is a democracy. However, it was not a democracy during its fast growing period in the 1960-80s as one of the four Asian Tigers. The same applies to South Korea. Their wealth is not a RESULT of democracy. It precedes democracy.
True. But both countries became democracies when the wealthy and educated populace wanted it. Pluralistic and enlightened populations want political freedom after they get material wealth. I'm quite sure that totalitarian countries like China and Saudi Arabia will have to deal with a serious challenge. Either rule the country with an iron fist, or give in. This brings me back to the original point; either it's democracy or tanks driving over protesters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Also what's basic human rights? It is up to western interpretation? According to American liberals, apparently even adult men using women's bathroom is a human rights - if they want it, they can keep it. I am sure a lot of countries don't need/want such human rights. Most people think the one-child policy was a violation of human rights, but if you do ask regular Chinese people, most of them think it was necessary.

On the other hand, based on Asian tradition, the seniors consider it a basic right to be taken care of their children (no, they don't want to be cared for by the government or die in retirement homes), in China parents can literally sue their children for not fulfilling their duties - should the west provide this human right? Who gets to decide what is really human rights? I am sure as a western what is preached as human right makes perfect sense to you, but remember, not everyone is a westerner. Actually westerners are a small minority in this world, but they pretend to decide everything on the planet.
I surely think that the Western interpretation is the best, as it has been the largest proponent and catalyst of these issues. If you don't like it, fine, but if the majority of your people would like to follow these quite fundamental guidelines, you should adopt them. The thing is that you're not given a real choice, but you have to follow the party congress guidelines.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:46 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,590,027 times
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The West has limited democracy at best where different factions of the ruling class compete for filling up government spots with their front men by means of manipulation of the mass opinion using quite idiotic tools with 30 seconds ads being the most powerful weapons. Yes it is better than no competition, but fundamentally it is the same if you do not belong to the ruling class. Especially nowadays when manipulating mass opinions is way cheaper than making meaningful improvements in commoners lives. Western representative democracy does not really represents interests of larger population, it is representative strictly in technical terms, which means that technically it is not democracy either.
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Old 10-22-2017, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,801,188 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
The West has limited democracy at best where different factions of the ruling class compete for filling up government spots with their front men by means of manipulation of the mass opinion using quite idiotic tools with 30 seconds ads being the most powerful weapons. Yes it is better than no competition, but fundamentally it is the same if you do not belong to the ruling class. Especially nowadays when manipulating mass opinions is way cheaper than making meaningful improvements in commoners lives. Western representative democracy does not really represents interests of larger population, it is representative strictly in technical terms, which means that technically it is not democracy either.
Sadly, this is the situation in the US now, but that doesn't mean that the phenomenon is global. In many countries especially in Europe there is not a strong enough or intertwined political and economical elite. Take for example Macron. He is of the establishment, but he is not of the hereditary corrupted elite. And in many European countries the elite is quite fluid - you can rise into it, and you can fall down from it.
In the US the Kennedys, Bush's and others are much more like the former aristrocrats of Europe than the elite in Europe today. Your name is all that you need over there. And donations to a school or institution. Meanwhile, a relative of one former president of Finland repairs my dad's car.
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Old 10-22-2017, 02:57 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
If comrade Scrat learned some Soviet history not from Russian nazi sources he would know that Soviet union pushed wage slavery to the extreme.
I'm not talking about the Soviet Union.

Quote:
The West has limited democracy at best where different factions of the ruling class compete for filling up government spots with their front men by means of manipulation of the mass opinion using quite idiotic tools with 30 seconds ads being the most powerful weapons. Yes it is better than no competition, but fundamentally it is the same if you do not belong to the ruling class. Especially nowadays when manipulating mass opinions is way cheaper than making meaningful improvements in commoners lives. Western representative democracy does not really represents interests of larger population, it is representative strictly in technical terms, which means that technically it is not democracy either.
The most sensible thing you have said since you've been here. Did you hurt yourself doing it?
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:16 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,438,768 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Sadly, this is the situation in the US now, but that doesn't mean that the phenomenon is global. In many countries especially in Europe there is not a strong enough or intertwined political and economical elite.
Take a closer look. What you posted awhile back about the Ukrainian oligarchs outlines a template. A template that if you look has been used all throughout history. "Greasing the skids" has been done since the Australopithecines strode the plains of Africa no doubt. Whether it's bad or good depends on how it's used as is any other tool. The Wests military machine is a great example of the bad use of said tool. Just like in the USSR the people went with less while the military grew and grew. Its largely the same here in America now. Our priorities are screwed. We have no right to tell others how to live when our own house is a cesspool.
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