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Nice try Alechek, but Vlasov (and his soldiers) were prisoners of war, trying to save their lives ( and hence still regarded as traitors by Russian population.)
There is a difference you see with Ukrainian VOLUNTEERS, greeting German troops with flowers and joining SS.
But you know all that, don't you?
I do know about Vlasov. Sad situation he was in. Didn't Krasnov die as a partisan around Vitebsk?
No, he was talking apparently about this Krasnov, from the times of Russian Civil war, who lived in exile after the revolution.
(He and his cossacks were returned to Stalin by the British during Keelhaul operation.)
Wear a hat with a fur. Ukraine is a different mentality. The further on more.
No Alechek, they only THINK that they have "different mentality," and thus are trying to to wear someone else's hats.
Which makes them look even more stupid.
I read about Vlasov and his men. I would not want to be a judge in that case. I think he thought that it was over and did what was best to save some lives. The other Cossacks I'm not clear on but I heard that some groups of the "White" armies were particularly vicious and bloodthirsty.
I see.
American administration apparently wants to fight Russia till the last Ukrainian.
They don't have enough of dead Ukrainians by now or what?
The dead of Ukraine are just statistics to them. The last thing the junta in Kiev need is any kind of weapons whatsoever. The crazies manning the "rampart of freedom" regularly shell the Novorussians. Anything we give them will most likely be used for other purposes than defense. A system for tracking incoming artillery and mortars tracks out going just as well and gives the user a great advantage in a duel.
The dead of Ukraine are just statistics to them. The last thing the junta in Kiev need is any kind of weapons whatsoever. The crazies manning the "rampart of freedom" regularly shell the Novorussians. Anything we give them will most likely be used for other purposes than defense. A system for tracking incoming artillery and mortars tracks out going just as well and gives the user a great advantage in a duel.
Russia doesn't give a crap about Ukranians either. Since when did Russia value human life, at least 20 million dead in Stalin's purges and that just gets brushed off as a price to pay in the name of progress.
The very fact that there is a guy called Alec Solano on this board who dislikes Russia proves my point that just like with Libya, Vietnam... not everyone loves the groups that oppose the west as you may think.
I read about Vlasov and his men. I would not want to be a judge in that case. I think he thought that it was over and did what was best to save some lives.
Not exactly - from what I know, once he has been captured by Germans, all of a sudden he *realized* how much he "detested Stalin." You know, you don't rise through the ranks of the Red Army to become a general, only to realize how much "youhate it all," once you are captured by the enemy and your life is put on-line. That's when you REALLY have to make your choices. He did. And in order to feel better about himself, to convince himself that he still "served his mother land," he signed up for the whole "ROA deal. ( He switched sides one more time by the end of the war, so the good Russian word "карьерист" comes to mind - i.e. someone who is concerened about his career at expense of one's own moral choices. Compare him to someone like Karbyshev, and you'll know the difference.
I mean I understand the Cossacks and former officers of the White army living in immigration, who lost the civil war and were still looking for revenge, ( even with the help of the German army,) but Vlasov was the whole different story I think.
Russia doesn't give a crap about Ukranians either. Since when did Russia value human life, at least 20 million dead in Stalin's purges and that just gets brushed off as a price to pay in the name of progress.
While it's true that the value of human life was traditionally low in Russia ( this goes back to Tzarist times by the way, not just Soviet era,) "20 million dead in Stalin's purges" is a myth - a guess made by Western historians that never proved to be true.
So when it comes to the whole Ukrainian ordeal, one has to distinguish what the Russian government thinks of it/how it treats Ukrainians, and what Russian population thinks of it.
Now when it comes to a choice "to kill Ukrainians" or to give in to the whole scheme of losing Ukraine to Western interests, of course Russian government will choose the former. But interestingly enough, even with that, Russia took in about 2 million refugees from Ukraine - Russians and Ukrainians alike, and kept on giving the asylum to those, trying to dodge the draft. So not too bad, keeping in mind the whole situation.
Whom the Russian government treats the WORST in this situation, is actually not Ukrainians, but ethnic Russians, living in Donbass ( and other Eastern parts of Ukraine.) They gamble their lives away betraying their loyalty and trust, all while bargaining with the "Western partners."
Which brings the issue of the attitude of the Russian population towards Ukrainians. Since Russians are familiar with the whole ordeal in a different way than the Westerners, who don't see the civilians killed and maimed by "Democratic Ukrainian government," their attitude towards Ukrainians is definitely worse than that of the their government.
Every time they see something like this - ( that's the latest victim of Ukrainian bombing, his mother was killed in front of his eyes,) their hatred towards Ukrainians goes up, and it takes an effort from both sides to remind that "not ALL Ukrainians are zombies."
Quote:
The very fact that there is a guy called Alec Solano on this board who dislikes Russia proves my point that just like with Libya, Vietnam... not everyone loves the groups that oppose the west as you may think.
Of course not everyone. And Russians for the most part understand that Ukrainians are simply used by the West.
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