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But can this point a little more? What exactly sucks? About corruption, even funny, rubber stamp from stamps.If something is called lobbying interests, it does not cease to be corruption. )))
What should I "point a little more?"
There is corruption and there is corruption you see.
The state, the very foundation of which is based on grotesque thuggery as post-Soviet Russia was ( did Putin fix this foundation? No, he simply legalized and reshaped it somewhat,) simply can't NOT to suck big time.
All these "lobbying interests" in the US ( that you are referring to I assume,) are peanuts comparably to Russian oligarchic state.
What should I "point a little more?"
There is corruption and there is corruption you see.
The state, the very foundation of which is based on grotesque thuggery as post-Soviet Russia was ( did Putin fix this foundation? No, he simply legalized and reshaped it somewhat,) simply can't NOT to suck big time.
All these "lobbying interests" in the US ( that you are referring to I assume,) are peanuts comparably to Russian oligarchic state.
Oh boy.... I beg of you. You just repeat the stamps, the information you have is outdated that way for 20 years.
But anyway, politics is as usual a tricky subject. Zelensky is an actor but so was Reagan (and Trump!). It can be done as an actor is a well known name and face. I think polls don't always predict who will actually go vote...
I do disagree that the western Ukrainians doesn't like Zelensky. He is certainly going to get votes from young people in the west. Some fascists showing up protesting doesn't mean he is unsupported there. (you don't actually believe people in lviv are fascists?) I don't understand older people in the west and don't know any of them anyway. Yes the older generation in the east is culturally "Russian" meaning its the same as people in Russia. I define their culture as Soviet but if that's Russian to you then okay we agree.
But anyway, politics is as usual a tricky subject. Zelensky is an actor but so was Reagan (and Trump!). It can be done as an actor is a well known name and face. I think polls don't always predict who will actually go vote...
I do disagree that the western Ukrainians doesn't like Zelensky. He is certainly going to get votes from young people in the west. Some fascists showing up protesting doesn't mean he is unsupported there. (you don't actually believe people in lviv are fascists?) I don't understand older people in the west and don't know any of them anyway.
There is something you need to understand.
These are couple of clips from that Zelensky's TV serial "The servant of the people."
These scenes are all about IMF loans and reforms that the *new president of the country* (i.e. the character played by Zelensky) should fulfill in order to secure those loans. And some other interesting requests coming from the the *foreign partners* in a pressing manner.
He refuses, because he doesn't see these demands as serving the interests of his country ( read the whole "Europe association" is in jeopardy.)
Now tell me again how "young people from the West" are going to vote for him.
Another thing - no, it's not a problem that Zelensky is an actor, as long as he is an honest person.
And in the light of what I told you above, here comes a very important point.
Ukrainians have tendency to ascribe their plunging living standards ( after Maidan) to corruption. And it takes a very honest head of the government, (who will have in front of him the budget ( the loans, the demands of IMF et al including,) to report to his people, whether it's REALLY just the "corruption" of Ukrainian officials that is the major source of their misery,or indeed their misery stems from the very reforms demanded by the West.
Quote:
Yes the older generation in the east is culturally "Russian" meaning its the same as people in Russia. I define their culture as Soviet but if that's Russian to you then okay we agree.
No, it's not the "Soviet culture" and it's not the "older generation."
The East Ukraine is culturally RUSSIAN, period.
I am telling you that as a MOSCOVITE ( albeit the former one.) East Ukrainians are different from the MOSCOVITES, but then, again, Moscow is different from the rest of Russia as well.
They are the same people, Russians and Ukrainians, so this should not surprise anybody especially you. .
Yes, Russians and (most of) Ukrainians are in fact the same people indeed. However, Ukrainians in the west of Ukraine, mostly in Lviv area who speak Ukrainian as mother tongue are different. And those Lviv Ukrainians as far as I know do not want to hear much about Russians and want to emphasise that they are completely different from them - this is this famous 'Ukrainian identity'. Thus, the Ukrainian identity has historically been immanent only to the Western Ukrainians, not to all Ukrainians. However, at the moment, the circles who are in power in Kiev are trying to impose the above mentioned Ukrainian identity on the whole of Ukraine. The West, of course, supports Kiev's aspirations as it sees a favorable opportunity to weaken Russia.
Yes, Russians and (most of) Ukrainians are in fact the same people indeed. However, Ukrainians in the west of Ukraine, mostly in Lviv area who speak Ukrainian as mother tongue are different. And those Lviv Ukrainians as far as I know do not want to hear much about Russians and want to emphasise that they are completely different from them - this is this famous 'Ukrainian identity'. Thus, the Ukrainian identity has historically been immanent only to the Western Ukrainians, not to all Ukrainians.
This is all mostly true. The rest of the nation are basically "Russians."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhityk
However, at the moment, the circles who are in power in Kiev are trying to impose the above mentioned Ukrainian identity on the whole of Ukraine. The West, of course, supports Kiev's aspirations as it sees a favorable opportunity to weaken Russia.
This is the part that is not true. I could go on and on why it isn't, but its your unfounded speculation so I don't have to refute it. Your statement does fit a convenient excuse why the younger half of the nation now consider themselves as a separate identity than those in the Russian Federation.
While they are the same "people," they don't have the same outlook and definitely lack the desire of Moscow and Putin rule in particular. So much that they are currently killing Russian thugs in Donetsk to keep it that way.
These are couple of clips from that Zelensky's TV serial "The servant of the people."
These scenes are all about IMF loans and reforms that the *new president of the country* (i.e. the character played by Zelensky) should fulfill in order to secure those loans. And some other interesting requests coming from the the *foreign partners* in a pressing manner.
He refuses, because he doesn't see these demands as serving the interests of his country ( read the whole "Europe association" is in jeopardy.)
Now tell me again how "young people from the West" are going to vote for him.
Another thing - no, it's not a problem that Zelensky is an actor, as long as he is an honest person.
And in the light of what I told you above, here comes a very important point.
Ukrainians have tendency to ascribe their plunging living standards ( after Maidan) to corruption. And it takes a very honest head of the government, (who will have in front of him the budget ( the loans, the demands of IMF et al including,) to report to his people, whether it's REALLY just the "corruption" of Ukrainian officials that is the major source of their misery,or indeed their misery stems from the very reforms demanded by the West.
No, it's not the "Soviet culture" and it's not the "older generation."
The East Ukraine is culturally RUSSIAN, period.
Yes I've seen his show and while I don't find interest in it, I can understand the playing on fears of the consequences of westernization of government finances. The reality is the IMF and EU forces Ukraine to not have unnecessary things where corruption can occur. For example subsidized gas. In 2011 Ukraine was the least efficient natural gas user in the world. Now that gas is sold at market rates, it makes it very difficult to make money off of schemes to buy gas for cheap and sell it at market elsewhere. Some oligarchy criminal types would like to go back to being able to profit from gas subsidies so they push it as a political platform. It won't happen though. But it doesn't stop people from making false promises that they will return to nationwide gas subsidies, or this or that free stuff. Low income people like grandma get gas for very cheap for household consumption.
In his platform I see no jeopardy of losing the EU association or of turning away from the reforms demanded by the west. So you agree, corruption is correctly identified as the main problem. The reason for Maidan didn't disappear then because EU association means reforms and laws the elites have to live by. People are impatiently desiring the reforms to be implemented. Real rule of law, forced on the Ukrainians at the top will bring many benefits to its people. For example, gas imports could cease entirely in 2 years if western gas companies could invest in a stable legal framework. The problem isn't the IMF, the problem is the oligarchs who can't make money so easily living under IMF rules so they want to disable it.
Yes we agree that eastern Ukrainians are culturally "Russian." I would say that applies to central Ukraine just as much. I had a different way of defining it but when I think about it, its mostly the same. Except now, Ukrainians are a bit more europeanized than Russians. The difference is in English speaking, travels to Europe, encounters with Europeans in their country, European products/foods in their stores, and many more interactions with Europe as a whole is changing the way people think about how they want to live. And it isn't like their cousins in Moscow.
And finally, you're wrong about "plunging" living standards. As I said before, people are making more money now than ever (except in the far eastern 2 oblasts.) This is convenient for Poroshenko. Inflation/prices were up 10% in 2018 but wages were up roughly 22%.
Last edited by DKM; 02-18-2019 at 12:51 PM..
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