The future of Ukraine (2014, country, people, living)

[gsgsgs]

schreibt "die Zeit" :
http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2014-09/ukraine-putin-annexion-krim

> Der russische Präsident träumt von der Neugründung eines Staates unter
> historischem Namen. Ein Kommentar von Carsten Luther

ich kann dort nicht kommentieren, also mach ich's mal hier.
Vielleicht kann+will es jemand dorthin kopieren

warum soll Putin von einem neuen Staat Novorussia "traeumen" aber dann
klipp und klar erklaeren (lassen) es solle aber innerhalb des Ukrainischen Staates geschehen ?
Waere das nicht diesem "Ziel" ziemlich abtraeglich ?
Abtruennige Republiken, die nach Selbsstaendigkeit streben sehe ich eher
als _Alp_traum Russlands.
Fuer mich will Putin nur etwas tun fuer sein Image als (militaerisch) starker,
gewiefter "Zar", der immer noch einen Trick auf Lager, noch einen Trumpf im
Aermel hat. Das scheint seiner Popularitaet zu helfen.
"Der Westen" macht sich meiner Meinung nach hier staendig laecherlich
mit falschen Aeusserungen ("Invasion","aehh, doch nict, aber jetzt","Russland ist verantwortlich
fuer den MH17-Abschuss") und mit Kommentaren wie diesem hier.

-----------------------------------------

writes "die Zeit":
http://www.Zeit.de/Politik/ausland/2...-annexion-Krim

> The Russian President dreams of founding a State under
> historical name. A comment by Carsten Luther


I can not comment on there, so I do it here.
Perhaps someone can and wants to copy it


Why should Putin "dream" about a new State Novorussia but then
clearly (let) explain it should only happen within the Ukrainian State?
Wouldn't it be quite detrimental to that "target"?
I see breakaway republics seeking independence more as a nightmare
of Russia.
IMO Putin wants to do it just for his image as a strong (military),
clever 'Czar', who still always hasl a trick , a trump card in the
sleeves. That seems to help his popularity.
"The West" is in my opinion here constantly ridiculously
with false statements ("Invasion", "uh, not really, but now", "Russia is responsible
for the MH17 launch") and with comments such as this one.

[travric]

^
Re: 'Novorussia'...

Seems to me the conflict is at its simplest based on Putin's approach to grabbing portions of Ukraine's eastern territories. Not sure where the historical justification (I'll leave that to the separatist apologists) but the use of force and mucking with the internal affairs of another state is pushing certain boundaries in country relationships into a scary position. Putin's determination to push the Novorussian agenda seemingly to all-out victory shows how wary he is of Ukraine. I think he'd destroy her first before she gets possible strong ties to the West. His paranoia is getting worse.

[gsgsgs]

he just wants to demonstrate "defiance" to perceived Western expansionism.
That makes him popular, that's also what Russian posters here want ?!
Eastern Ukraine is also popular in Russia because they fight against
the "Nazis", so showing some support is good for Putin.
But he doesn't really want to go against international law, against UNO,
support rebellion

[Scrat335]

Viri. People are saying that was not a plane. They're saying the boat was hit by Kornet missiles. Bullchit. There's a plane attacking the ship, everyone agree?

[gsgsgs]

www.gorby.ru:

XXI век станет либо веком тотального обострения смертоносного кризиса, либо же веком морального очищения и духовного выздоровления человечества.

XXI century will be a century of total acute lethal crisis or of a century of
moral and spiritual healing of humanity.

[LEFT]Его всестороннего возрождения.[/LEFT]

His full recovery.
[LEFT][/LEFT]
[LEFT]Убежден, все мы – все разумные политические силы, все духовные и
идейные течения, все конфессии – призваны содействовать этому переходу,
победе человечности и справедливости.[/LEFT]

I am sure all of us - all reasonable political leaders, all spiritual and
ideological movements, all faiths - must help in this transition to a
triumph of humanism and justice.

[LEFT]Тому, чтобы XXI век стал веком возрождения, веком Человека.[/LEFT]

Making the XXI century is the century renaissance, the age of man.


can we improve this translation ? Does Gorbachev want a world government ? Erasure ?

[viribusunitis]

Originally Posted by Scrat335

Viri. People are saying that was not a plane. They're saying the boat was hit by Kornet missiles. Bullchit. There's a plane attacking the ship, everyone agree?

Well, no one will know for sure. But judging by that video I'd say so. There's always the chance that the ship was hit by something else while planes were flying over it at that exact moment.

[gsgsgs]

headline: Putin: "when/if I want, I take Kiev in 2 weeks"
[and commenting it as threat,provocation]
but in the article: Barroso says, Putin said: if I wanted, I could take Kiew in 2 weeks

they left out the conjunctive in the headline !

Well, if Putin wanted, he could destroy Washington DC in 2 hours, we all know that.
But presumably he would need the Duma for either and they won't approve, right ??

[Scrat335]

Here's a vid of the boat.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdjC-tscVQo

[viribusunitis]

So, let's be honest. I guess we shouldn't blow the situation within the EU out of proportion.

What's likely to happen? Some more (comparatively) mild sanctions. Everything else will be vetoed by Slovakia, Hungary, and pretty much every other nation with good economic ties with Russia. Considering the already pretty ****ty economy of Russia that'll make them think twice. Maybe they will cancel the world cup in 2018.

On the other hand, the sanctions won't be too bad to completely trash the Russian economy. With good reasons. European leaders will probably tell Poroshenko to reconsider those plans recently offered by the rebels and Putin. Basically the status quo of Bosnia right now. Hopefully a better agreement than the Dayton Agreement will be reached.

I mean, the extremists on both sides have to be realistic: There won't be a peaceful Novorossiya and there won't be a peaceful Eastern Ukraine without sufficient self-government. We can keep on playing the blame game forever, but in the end it won't help the people actually living there.

[Scrat335]

The Ukies are getting it bad. really bad.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRgZe0jL5GY#t=139