Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You mean.. you mean.. it was actually allowed at some point?
Vedmosti was independent in its reporting. This was important since business news needs to be unbiased if people are going to believe in it. It was a legitimate source for investors into Russia (of which I was until 2014). They didn't get too political however and were tolerated due the need for some transparency (to encourage investment). That's all off the table now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimogor
The New York Times — to Trump: "Bring in the troops." The newspaper editor was fired for the article on June 08, 2020
The NYT: "There are two alternative opinions: one is ours, and the other is wrong."
Umm, this is relevant to the Vedmosti situation how? Yikes! They really brainwashed the sense out of some of you.
Oh, no. It is Biden gave this seat to Poroshenko . Because the coup occurred with the support of Nuland, H. Clinton, Biden and others. When you hear that Putin supports Trump, you should not believe. I think Putin is fighting against H. Clinton and Biden. He has good reason for this.
.
It was the Ukrainian people who put Poroshenko into that seat. This singular fact enraged and threatened your dear leader.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov
I think you are mistaken in your reasoning in some places.
1. Ukraine is not Russia. This is a fragment of Russia and a much simpler country in terms of territory, national composition, resource potential, military potential, scientific potential, etc. Experiments with a rejection of autocracy are very expensive for Russia. And adequate Russians do not want to create a new Russian field of experimentation.
2. The success of Ukraine can be achieved in 2 ways. The first way is gradual economic development. This path is not possible at the moment, as it requires calmness and long painstaking work with the economy. Calmness is not possible due to the activation of national elements (which created the prerequisites for a civil war and Russia took advantage of this). The second way is new Marshall’s plan for Ukraine, if the US will sponsor Ukraine. The US does not plan to create a new Marshall plan for Ukraine (probably they understand that the risks are too high).
So, to show the situation in Ukraine as a threat to the Russian authorities is wishful thinking. If necessary, Russian propaganda will destroy any positive aspects in Ukraine, it is not difficult. But you are right that Russia is protecting its backyard. And Russia has a lot of time for this, it will not back down.
I completely agree with your #1 in all ways.
It's your #2 that is wrong. The path forward for Ukraine is to develop along a similar path that Visegrad did. That was ONLY possible by enacting rule of law reforms. Only by getting laws enforced can corruption be defeated. And then real progress happens, including larger western investment. This has only started. I would call it a good start but only 20% of the way they need to get to make it work. The West has given Ukraine lots of help to get this far and they can get more if they keep it up. That's what we keep telling them and I believe Ze knows it.
Unfortunately, the idea that the people can rise up and hold their government accountable to do this (reform itself and its corrupt systems) is a total threat to the current ruling class in Russia. And you know it. If Russia wants to integrate Ukraine, it needs to reform itself into something positive for its own people and then neighboring people will want to join it.
It was the Ukrainian people who put Poroshenko into that seat. This singular fact enraged and threatened your dear leader.
I completely agree with your #1 in all ways.
It's your #2 that is wrong. The path forward for Ukraine is to develop along a similar path that Visegrad did. That was ONLY possible by enacting rule of law reforms. Only by getting laws enforced can corruption be defeated. And then real progress happens, including larger western investment. This has only started. I would call it a good start but only 20% of the way they need to get to make it work. The West has given Ukraine lots of help to get this far and they can get more if they keep it up. That's what we keep telling them and I believe Ze knows it.
Unfortunately, the idea that the people can rise up and hold their government accountable to do this (reform itself and its corrupt systems) is a total threat to the current ruling class in Russia. And you know it. If Russia wants to integrate Ukraine, it needs to reform itself into something positive for its own people and then neighboring people will want to join it.
Do you keep on trying to BS everyone here, DKM?
That "path" was possible only because the "Visegrad group" was directly hooked to Germany's economy.
In case of Ukraine Americans were hoping to force/trick RUSSIA to keep it financially afloat, while they were "restructuring" Ukraine to serve American interests.
This plan has backfired ( obviously) and now the everyday life of Ukrainians is getting worse and worse every day. Not only are they now in debt for years to come and their economy is nosediving, but the "land reform" forced upon them by the IMF brought forth the kind of raiding on farmers and the kind of land racketeering that Ukrainians didn't see before.
That's you "fight with corruption American way" right there.
As in case with Russia back in the 90ies, Americans don't care what happens to the *aboriginals.*
All they care about first and utmost, is how they can get those coveted natural resources, to turn them into more money.
Oh, and how to hurt Russian interests in this case. THAT too.
That "path" was possible only because the "Visegrad group" was directly hooked to Germany's economy.
In case of Ukraine Americans were hoping to force/trick RUSSIA to keep it financially afloat, while they were "restructuring" Ukraine to serve American interests.
This plan has backfired ( obviously) and now the everyday life of Ukrainians is getting worse and worse every day. Not only are they now in debt for years to come and their economy is nosediving, but the "land reform" forced upon them by the IMF brought forth the kind of raiding on farmers and the kind of land racketeering that Ukrainians didn't see before.
That's you "fight with corruption American way" right there.
As in case with Russia back in the 90ies, Americans don't care what happens to the *aboriginals.*
All they care about first and utmost, is how they can get those coveted natural resources, to turn them into more money.
Oh, and how to hurt Russian interests in this case. THAT too.
I think Putin words on Ukraine will be revealed to be prophetic...it is a matter of time but Ukraine will eventually embrace its Russian brothers again...
I think Putin words on Ukraine will be revealed to be prophetic...it is a matter of time but Ukraine will eventually embrace its Russian brothers again...
I hope MY words are going to be prophetic.
Ukrainians have already figured out that not ALL Russians are their "brothers" - some would prefer to keep more money over helping Donbass ( or even Crimea in this case.)
And Russians already figured out that only PART of Ukrainians are genuinely holding on to the common roots, no matter what.
I hope both parties will find each other, and will act in unison. I won't get into further details ( guesses and projections,) but yesterday I've noticed a curious occurrence;
McDonalds is playing sh*tty games in Ukraine and removed menu in Russian language, leaving only Ukrainian and English.
There were discussions regarding it on Ukrainian social media, with suggestions to boycott McDuck.
I am not sure whether Russian social media will catch up with this call in "Russia proper."
P.S. If Putin would have been a "prophet" of any kind, he would have never betrayed Donbass the way he did.
( And this includes Zakharchenko in particular.)
I hope MY words are going to be prophetic.
Ukrainians have already figured out that not ALL Russians are their "brothers" - some would prefer to keep more money over helping Donbass ( or even Crimea in this case.)
And Russians already figured out that only PART of Ukrainians are genuinely holding on to the common roots, no matter what.
I hope both parties will find each other, and will act in unison. I won't get into further details ( guesses and projections,) but yesterday I've noticed a curious occurrence;
McDonalds is playing sh*tty games in Ukraine and removed menu in Russian language, leaving only Ukrainian and English.
There were discussions regarding it on Ukrainian social media, with suggestions to boycott McDuck.
I am not sure whether Russian social media will catch up with this call in "Russia proper."
P.S. If Putin would have been a "prophet" of any kind, he would have never betrayed Donbass the way he did.
( And this includes Zakharchenko in particular.)
Maybe the splitting of Ukraine (East/West) in the end would be the best solution.
Maybe the splitting of Ukraine (East/West) in the end would be the best solution.
Well, if I'll run a bit ahead...
To be honest, I hope even for something more.
By now, a lot of Ukrainians realized that they have been duped and colonized by the US ( all while listening how they were "colonized by Russia," heh.)
This goes not only for the Eastern part of the country, but in the East in particular they have enough of sharp, independent politicians and economists ( not to mention that they actually have part of such people sitting in Kiev as well...)
And a lot of Russians follow their events and are listening to what their bloggers/politicians have to say, while this part of Russia uncontrolled by Kremlin ( "Ukraine" that is) is going through a difficult process of independent thought and nascent democracy.
And it's from THIS part of "Russia minor" ( using the "classical Russian language" here,) where the opposition in "Russia proper" will get its clues and ideas - not the other way around.
Umm, this is relevant to the Vedmosti situation how? Yikes! They really brainwashed the sense out of some of you.
What I'm saying is in the US, as in Russia, the media is under strict control of the state or certain political forces, and the freedom of speech, that you like to talk about, is simply absent, if this "freedom of speech" goes against the opinion of those forces that control the media.
We've been talking about this for what, six years? Nothing changes... Its gotten slick, with "bloggers" and talk shows with supposed representatives from all sides. It doesn't correspond with reality now anymore than it did then. You can only convince yourselves what Ukrainians want, not them what they want. They know they have problems but they don't see the solution is to join a neighbor with its own big problems.
You could win by making Russia a more attractive partner than Europe, but you can't so you insist on non-stop disinformation to make things look worse than they are. It is sad.
The virus situation was almost an opening until it raged across Russia at a much higher rate. They have nothing left to offer, gas and oil are nearly worthless now.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. Because the coup occurred with the support of Nuland, H. Clinton, Biden and others. When you hear that Putin supports Trump, you should not believe. I think Putin is fighting against H. Clinton and Biden. He has good reason for this.
