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Old 04-12-2018, 04:04 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,494,204 times
Reputation: 5031

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
I beg to differ...Assad (a London educated Alawite) is not an acceptable political figure by western standards but is not anywhere close to the rebels...you could consider him "moderate" in the Middle Eastern context.
Not if you consider his interference in Lebanon and arming of Hezbollah/Hamas in order to attack Israel. He gets many of his directives from Iran, who has been using the situation in the ME to expand it's influence by supporting Shia radicals. During the Iraq War, after the fall of Saddam, many of the factions that started attacking the coalition were Shia radicals, who took advantage of the new power vacuum.
Shia's are just as militant in nature as Sunni's. Many of the traditions they follow attest to that.
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:16 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,300,229 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Not if you consider his interference in Lebanon and arming of Hezbollah/Hamas in order to attack Israel. He gets many of his directives from Iran, who has been using the situation in the ME to expand it's influence by supporting Shia radicals. During the Iraq War, after the fall of Saddam, many of the factions that started attacking the coalition were Shia radicals, who took advantage of the new power vacuum.
Shia's are just as militant in nature as Sunni's. Many of the traditions they follow attest to that.

I think his support of Hezbollah has been "pro-forma" (pass me the term). The alliance with Iran is of convenience. I do not believe Assad advocate the destruction of Israel...that alone makes him a moderate somehow.
What I'm afraid is that further attempt to isolate and strangle Russia may result in a nuclear Iran.....the west should just accept the sharing or sphere of influence in the Middle East with Russia being the guarantor of the safety of Israel keeping Iran on leash and the US being the guarantor of the safety of Iran keeping Israel (and Saudi Arabia) on leash ...I think that is the realistic solution.
Russia is back as a power, it should be accepted and move on.
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:30 PM
 
617 posts, read 538,157 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
If they want to shut off badly needed foreign investment, the time is now to "respond". I don't see how the regime could survive without it so I doubt this will occur.
The "regime" survived just fine up to date, and will survive even better now, because Russian tycoons are going to move all their money from offshore and invest in Russia, otherwise risking confiscation of their money by the crooked and unpredictable West.
The Western policies towards Russia are incredibly stupid, really feels like they come out of mentally challenged people, pretty much every sanction they imposed worked FOR Russia, and will continue to do so. The dumb West still cannot accept simple fact that it's impossible to sanction a country size of Russia full of natural resources and with exceptionally well educated and patriotic populace.
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:44 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,568,432 times
Reputation: 11136
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
I beg to differ...Assad (a London educated Alawite) is not an acceptable political figure by western standards but is not anywhere close to the rebels...you could consider him "moderate" in the Middle Eastern context.
It doesn't matter. The people who write things like him want to kill people so they say look at the other guy, not me.

It's the hallmark of a criminal mind to say that we can do evil things because the people we do them to are evil. Demonizing the victim is a way to shift guilt onto another party. There would be no 500,000 Syrians dead without the US and its partners initiating and continuing the war. Nearly 25 percent of the population wouldn't have been uprooted. In total, the number of people who have become homeless worldwide as a result of the wars the US has engaged is more than three times the total population of Syria.
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:54 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,855,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civis View Post
The "regime" survived just fine up to date, and will survive even better now, because Russian tycoons are going to move all their money from offshore and invest in Russia, otherwise risking confiscation of their money by the crooked and unpredictable West.
The Western policies towards Russia are incredibly stupid, really feels like they come out of mentally challenged people, pretty much every sanction they imposed worked FOR Russia, and will continue to do so. The dumb West still cannot accept simple fact that it's impossible to sanction a country size of Russia full of natural resources and with exceptionally well educated and patriotic populace.
If you think that's how economics works then you missed econ 101.
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Old 04-12-2018, 04:57 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,300,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
If you think that's how economics works then you missed econ 101.
...I suspect you are the one that did miss it......and the smart ones hoping to strangle Russia with sanctions....sanctions made Russian agriculture flourish...oops!!


I forgot.

Add to the mix global warming that will make a northern trade route more and more feasible in the future...
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:00 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,437,689 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
There are no moderate Arab nations. The only moderate country in the Middle East is Israel (maybe Jordan). Assad and the rebels are one and the same, in that they are both bad news. Sunni radicals are only part of the problem as there is a whole Shia faction being supported by Iran, who are easily just as extreme.

The objective of Islam, since it's inception has always been to spread across the world, as Muslims believe it to be the final word of God. I've talked to many of them in the past and most shared these views in some capacity. They view Judaism and Christianity as stepping stones, that are obsolete at this point.

Why am I the only one who can see the whole picture here? EVERYONE IS BAD

The solution is simple: Get all foreign powers to leave the Middle East and stop funding either Saudi Arabia or Iran. The only country that should be supported is Israel.
Well said all in all.

You left out the fact that Russia and the west going at it and destroying themselves has been a fantasy of Islamic radicals for decades.

I can't agree that all are bad. Look at Brazilians (they're mantra is "Make love not war") and south America in general, they've had nothing like the wars Europeans have had. Small scrimishes here and there and a civil society at times not so nice but it's still nothing like what Europe experienced when it comes to war and death.
South Americans have the natural resources available in quantity to murder one another on the scale Europeans have done. Hell Europeans have slaughtered one another with much less laying around.

Was Russia bad? Yes. They invaded central Asia but when they did it they wanted to assimilate the societies there, to make them part of the empire. What was America doing at the same time? Annihilating the remnants of a civilization.

There's a difference. There's bad and then there's a hell of a lot worse.

Maybe countries (like people) do bad things, no one is innocent. There's intent and there's goals, means and ends. I haven't seen Russia bombing countries to rubble and killing millions even though they COULD be doing it. Russia could have steam rolled Ukraine in 2014. Russia could do the same to the Baltics. Russia could turn it's society upside down, sacrifice everything and build the greatest war machine in human history once again.

Russia hasn't.

I see where you're coming from. I think that you need to understand that people and nations can change for better or worse.
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:23 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,300,229 times
Reputation: 1692
Quote:
Originally Posted by civis View Post
The "regime" survived just fine up to date, and will survive even better now, because Russian tycoons are going to move all their money from offshore and invest in Russia, otherwise risking confiscation of their money by the crooked and unpredictable West.
The Western policies towards Russia are incredibly stupid, really feels like they come out of mentally challenged people, pretty much every sanction they imposed worked FOR Russia, and will continue to do so. The dumb West still cannot accept simple fact that it's impossible to sanction a country size of Russia full of natural resources and with exceptionally well educated and patriotic populace.

Our friend DKM forget a wonderful wild card that Russia could play to get any sanctions lifted probably tomorrow.....either you take your economic sanctions out or I start to selling nuclear weapons and delivery systems to whoever is interested starting with Iran....I would love to see the face of the American negotiator


Maybe this will be Putin last laugh....
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:31 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,437,689 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Our friend DKM forget a wonderful wild card that Russia could play to get any sanctions lifted probably tomorrow.....either you take your economic sanctions out or I start to selling nuclear weapons and delivery systems to whoever is interested starting with Iran....I would love to see the face of the American negotiator


Maybe this will be Putin last laugh....
Maybe to start off the mujis in Afghanistan would be much better armed starting next week. Kornets, Iglas with planty of ammo maybe a few train loads of AT and AP mines along with some Russian claymores. Just a few thousand, not many.
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:36 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,437,689 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Our friend DKM forget a wonderful wild card that Russia could play to get any sanctions lifted probably tomorrow.....either you take your economic sanctions out or I start to selling nuclear weapons and delivery systems to whoever is interested starting with Iran....I would love to see the face of the American negotiator


Maybe this will be Putin last laugh....
Y'know I bet that would reallt throw a wrench into the works. What is the US going to do when everybody can actually defend themselves?

America can only beat up on weak nations.

On the other hand they may beat up on American citizens.
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