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Well, you haven't presented any different point of view aside from personal attacks - between calling those sites rating-based, anti-Constitutional; and me arrogant and ignorant, are you saying there is actually a "point of view" in there somewhere?
If personal attacks IS the point of view then I'm afraid you're right, my inferior intellect cannot stoop that low to grasp the legitimacy behind it.
Sure.
You seemed to have forgotten the fact that these are not my rules. In your analogy, the abused children can't even tell others the accepted principle of parenting. The way you choose to approach this is to shoot the messenger. Apparently, to you, that is the sign of high intellect.
Btw, you must have made almost 10 posts on this thread; and you've yet to touch on the safety rule itself, why you think the way you do. All you've done is throw out personal attacks. What did you say about inferior intellect? Yeah.
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I don't think you understand the meaning of "personal attack." If I called you a name that would be a personal attack. To challenge your credibility based on the sources you've listed as well as the background you shared about yourself is not a personal attack but an observation. It is content-based critique of what you've put into this thread.
Has been a long time for me but cannot recall if it was in the Canadian Army or US Army that we were taught to Never point your weapon at anyone unless you intend on using it. Three yrs Canada (WW11) and Two yrs US (Korea)
These are people not following Rule #3 and putting their fingers on the trigger. That is much different than the gun going off on its own.
Also, your rule isn't universal because there is a difference between the use of firearms for hunting and the use of firearms for protection. If someone has a firearm for hunting, it makes complete sense to keep the gun and the ammo separate. You know exactly when you will need to use both. Defense carrying is a completely different animal. You have no idea when you will need the firearm if it is for defense.
Is it technically safer to keep a gun separate from its ammo? Yes, if your concern is a child or gun novice getting their hands on the gun. However, if the concern is protecting yourself and/or family from danger, then storing the gun and ammo separately is more dangerous.
A few years ago there was a certain S&W pistol which had an issue with the internal hammer activating if the firearm struck at a specific angle. A U.S. Marshal shot a lady sitting in her vehicle when he tapped on the passenger window with the pistol.
Has been a long time for me but cannot recall if it was in the Canadian Army or US Army that we were taught to Never point your weapon at anyone unless you intend on using it. Three yrs Canada (WW11) and Two yrs US (Korea)
Interesting. Those experiences must make for some pretty interesting stories.
The way the safety rule I learned is worded, "Never point the weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot." I learned this as a concept as a kid, maybe 8 years old, the first time my dad let me pick up a bb gun. I learned it as a rule in high school ROTC.
Third, if you're going to the range only on the weekend, why do you need to unload/load everyday if you follow the rule? You should be loading/unloading only once a week.
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I'm not the poster you responded to here, but I am going to venture out here and make the assumption that he (or she) would have to unload and reload every day because he (or she) keeps a gun at the ready when at home.
Not everyone who owns guns ONLY loads them for target practice. Some actually use them for home and self protection and self defense systems.
It is a universal rule. Why do I say that? Because 1) it is on almost every gun manufacturer's site. 2) It is taught in safety classes. 3) It is echoed in many pro-gun sites. 4) Not just the USA, but countries from Europe to South America also cite this rule.
It doesn't get more universal than that.
I find it amusing that people thinks I don't know the basic gun safety rule, when I was the one who is telling you guys about rules that you are not aware of. That you'd think the person who know stuff that you don't, is somehow ignorant of stuff that you do.
And you're calling me novice? You have not been paying attention if you think guns don't discharge accidentally.
No one is saying that it will fire on its own, but guns have been known to discharge accidentally when being handled. Someone showing a friend his gun and pop! Someone dropped a gun and it went off (I know, they're not supposed to discharge like that right? Think again). Someone thought the safety is on, etc, etc. These types of real life accidents is why the rule exist.
Oh yeah, a person is supposed to assume that the gun is loaded. You know what, s___ happens. Everyone has lapses. Many people knew that rule somehow still had accidental discharges, fancy that.
Lastly, I'll leave you this:
This rule has been taught in safety classes, I'm surprised this many gun owners don't know about it.
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like I stated before, ask how many police officers seperate their firearms from their ammo when they are at home. very few will be the correct response.
a firearm with no ammo is just a not very good hammer when the criminal breaks into your home.
I prefer to have as many loaded firearms in my home and as many as I can keep nearby as well.
also, from the time I wake up til the time I go to bed, I am armed. there is even a revolver available in the bathroom when I take a shower each day.
Even if you assume the gun is always loaded, the gun still may discharge accidentally . It's not like if you assume the gun is always loaded then nothing bad will happen. This rule doesn't excuse the storage rule.
Nope, my gun will discharge ONLY if my finger pulls the trigger, or if a finger-like object such as a pencil or a twig snags on the trigger and pulls it back. When my firearm is sitting in the safe, neither of those things can happen, so it will NOT go off. So why should I unload it before I put it away in the safe?
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First of all, it is NOT my universal safety rules. I didn't come up with it.
No, it was written by the same sort of people who've forced Halloween costume manufacturers to put tags stating "Cape does not permit user to fly" into Superman costumes.
No matter what website you're quoting, it's not a universally-required safety rule (as already noted, it's one the police and military themselves don't follow, unlike the Four Rules of Gun Safety I quoted to you earlier, which they DO follow). It's a "maximum legal ass-covering rule," which is why you see it on gun manufacturers' website.
I'm fine with telling novice gun owners about this method of storage in any training class they take. I'm NOT fine with insisting it's some sort of universal rule precisely because it doesn't deal with the situation of how to safely store a defense weapon (as opposed to a target gun or a hunting rifle). A novice gun owner needs to know there are better storage options available than just tossing their loaded shotgun into the closet if they want to use a gun for defense.
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Second, we keep going around in circle. I've already said it's your choice to sacrifice safety for readiness. If you want to take on more risk for convenience, that's your choice.
The problem is that when you (and I'm using "you" in a universal sense here, not a particular one) insist that a particular rule is universal, you imply everyone MUST follow it. It's universal, after all, so how can not following it be excused? This leads to nonsense legislation like "all firearms owners MUST put a trigger lock on their guns" or "all firearms owners MUST store their guns unloaded" which makes defensive firearms use impossible.
If everyone recognizes that the rule is situational rather than universal, this problem does not arise.
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Third, if you're going to the range only on the weekend, why do you need to unload/load everyday if you follow the rule? You should be loading/unloading only once a week.
I'm not following you here. I work in a hospital, where I can't carry. Since cars are easily stolen, I'm not comfortable storing my carry weapon in my car while I'm at work. If I want a defensive firearm at the ready when I am at home, following your gun storage rule requires me to load the gun every evening, then unload it for storage every morning. Storing my loaded gun in its safe means I'm only handling my gun when I'm going to the range on the weekend, or if I actually need it because a break-in is occurring. Less handling = fewer chances for a negligent discharge.
It's not a liberal versus conservative thing. I'm a liberal politically, but look at the stance I've been taking in this thread. It's an "understands firearms (especially their defensive use)" versus "doesn't understand firearms (especially their defensive use)" thing. And since beb0p explained his childhood experience with firearms, where he only saw them in the hands of folks who were habitually careless at best and homicidal at worst, I can understand his ignorance.
Let's face it, folks, there ARE a lot of people out there who are careless with guns. The problem is, these folks are also careless with cars, careless with power tools, careless with dangerous chemicals, etc. It's not an ignorance issue (which is fixable) but an attitude/personality issue (which is not). You could put those folks through every gun-handling course out there and they would STILL mishandle their weapons. As the saying goes, "Can't fix stupid."
Guns are simple objects, and their danger is easily understood by even the most dim-witted. The folks beb0p keeps talking about don't need a class, they need common sense!
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