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No. I am saying You acted surprise and offended. No need to drag other people into this.
Ah, but you've said the same to/about others here too, not just me. I've seen this many times. You assume that disagreement or someone whose position is not aligned to your own means they are surprised and offended by your position. This is in essence an inability to lend legitimacy to someone else's point of view and is usually a symptom of inferior intellect.
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Originally Posted by beb0p
So your logic is that someone who have seen the worse is not qualified to cite gun safety rules? So someone who is a friend of an alcoholic is not qualified to cite safe driving? Remember, I am not citing anything that isn't public knowledge.
There is an immense value in learning what NOT to do, but learning what NOT to do does not ready one on WHAT to do.
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Originally Posted by beb0p
If anything, someone who has been on the wrong side would know more about gun safety than the average Joe who has never experienced the worse.
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PUH-leeze! That's like saying children who are abused make the best parents.
Certainly safer than having a loaded gun just laying around. However, there is still risk of an accidental discharge while the gun is being retrieved/handled. You will probably say that danger is slim, but it exists. Hence, that rule.
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Originally Posted by Aredhel
No, hence Universal Rule #1: ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded. You should never alter the way you handle a weapon because you "know" it is unloaded.
And that very low risk of negligent discharge while being retrieved/handled is precisely the reason I don't store my gun unloaded! Following your supposed "universal safety rule" has me handling my defense weapon twice a day! To follow your rule, I have to retrieve the gun in the morning and unload it, and then reload it in the evening when I get home. My way has me handling the firearm usually only once a week (since I rarely carry during the week, I'll only be handling the firearm when I'm going to the range on the weekend). The rest of the week, the gun is sitting untouched in its hidden safe, an inert object. Which way is actually safer?
I always thing it's amusing how easy it is to differentiate gun enthusiasts from posers and anti-gunners. The verbal cues give away quite a bit.
been shooting handguns under 3 yrs now; didnt pick up this hobby till i was in my 50s. I did take the class and have a permit here but do not yet carry. I try to hit the range monthly at minimum and have ran thru thousands of rounds for both fun and practice.
While i consider myself competent at the range i do not consider myself ready or skilled enough to carry. Well i should say i dont have the confidence nor skill if i was put in a position to have to defend myself or family out in public. I will take classes/training before ever carrying but thats just how i feel for myself. I dont think having a card in my wallet means i am ready; just believe i should be educated out there.
But again only speaking for myself here in that proper training can be a positive.
MrsM and I are constantly taking new classes. Basic Firearm, CCW, Protection outside the home, Home defense, several advanced courses taken and several more signed up for. Police simulator (wow, that's a hit to the ego!) We just took a class (clasroom, no range time) with Massad Ayoob
So you chose to ignore basic gun safety because you fear someone is out to get you. That's your choice, just be cognizant what you're sacrificing in order for you to be ready to strike.
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I am sacrificing nothing at all in order to keep myself or my family safe.
the only time I lock firearms up is when I leave the home.
No, hence Universal Rule #1: ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded. You should never alter the way you handle a weapon because you "know" it is unloaded.
Even if you assume the gun is always loaded, the gun still may discharge accidentally . It's not like if you assume the gun is always loaded then nothing bad will happen. This rule doesn't excuse the storage rule.
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Originally Posted by Aredhel
And that very low risk of negligent discharge while being retrieved/handled is precisely the reason I don't store my gun unloaded! Following your supposed "universal safety rule" has me handling my defense weapon twice a day! To follow your rule, I have to retrieve the gun in the morning and unload it, and then reload it in the evening when I get home. My way has me handling the firearm usually only once a week (since I rarely carry during the week, I'll only be handling the firearm when I'm going to the range on the weekend). The rest of the week, the gun is sitting untouched in its hidden safe, an inert object. Which way is actually safer?
First of all, it is NOT my universal safety rules. I didn't come up with it.
Second, we keep going around in circle. I've already said it's your choice to sacrifice safety for readiness. If you want to take on more risk for convenience, that's your choice.
Third, if you're going to the range only on the weekend, why do you need to unload/load everyday if you follow the rule? You should be loading/unloading only once a week.
Ah, but you've said the same to/about others here too, not just me. I've seen this many times. You assume that disagreement or someone whose position is not aligned to your own means they are surprised and offended by your position. This is in essence an inability to lend legitimacy to someone else's point of view and is usually a symptom of inferior intellect.
Well, you haven't presented any different point of view aside from personal attacks - between calling those sites rating-based, anti-Constitutional; and me arrogant and ignorant, are you saying there is actually a "point of view" in there somewhere?
If personal attacks IS the point of view then I'm afraid you're right, my inferior intellect cannot stoop that low to grasp the legitimacy behind it.
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Originally Posted by iknowftbll
There is an immense value in learning what NOT to do, but learning what NOT to do does not ready one on WHAT to do.
Sure.
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Originally Posted by iknowftbll
PUH-leeze! That's like saying children who are abused make the best parents.
You seemed to have forgotten the fact that these are not my rules. In your analogy, the abused children can't even tell others the accepted principle of parenting. The way you choose to approach this is to shoot the messenger. Apparently, to you, that is the sign of high intellect.
Btw, you must have made almost 10 posts on this thread; and you've yet to touch on the safety rule itself, why you think the way you do. All you've done is throw out personal attacks. What did you say about inferior intellect? Yeah.
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I can understand the arrogance, I can come off that way in real life too.
The ignorance I don't get. All I did was cited something that was in black and white; and I made no further besides these are the safety rules, here they are.
I'd say the ignorance part is from people who own guns but don't know the safety rules.
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The "guns have to be locked up and stored separately" ISN'T a universal safety rule.
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Originally Posted by Aredhel
Your "universal safety rule" isn't universal, but you keep insisting that it is. That's the problem. Now, the following four rules ARE universal:
1. Always treat every gun as if it is loaded.
2. Always be aware of where the gun's muzzle is pointing, and never allow the muzzle to point at anything you do not wish to destroy.
3. Never put your finger on the trigger of a firearm unless you are ready to actually fire the gun.
4. You are not ready to fire until you have positively identified your target and also know what lies beyond it.
Can you see the difference between those rules (which ARE universal; they apply at all times and in all situations) and the storage rule you keep insisting gun owners must follow or be viewed as unsafe?
These are the universal safety rules for guns, which every responsible gun owner knows. The claptrap about "guns have to be locked up and stored separately" isn't a UNIVERSAL (meaning applies to everyone at all times) safety rule because its not applicable in all situations. I live in a house with no kids - just my wife and I. We both know the big 4 gun safety rules. With no kids in the house, there is no danger to us to keep guns loaded. When visitors are in the house, the guns are put away.
Again, the argument that a gun has to be kept locked up at all times and away from ammo assumes that guns are going to start firing on their own. Anyone making that argument clearly has little-to-no experience with firearms.
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Originally Posted by Aredhel
No, hence Universal Rule #1: ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded. You should never alter the way you handle a weapon because you "know" it is unloaded.
The fact you had to state this is proof positive this guy is 100% a novice when it comes to guns. This has become a highly amusing thread.
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Originally Posted by beb0p
Even if you assume the gun is always loaded, the gun still may discharge accidentally .
No it won't, it just won't. Reality isn't some movie where guns start spraying rounds all over the place at the drop of a hat. Gun companies do not want to get sued for accidents. Consequently, the vast majority of guns require several pounds of pressure applied to the trigger to fire. Clearly you have never been to a range or you would know the amount of pressure needed to fire a gun is enough that fingers get tired rather quickly
Guns are not sentient beings with minds of their own. If a person follows the big 4 gun rules a firearm is not going to accidentally discharge.
Last edited by War Beagle; 11-11-2015 at 11:34 AM..
The "guns have to be locked up and stored separately" ISN'T a universal safety rule.
It is a universal rule. Why do I say that? Because 1) it is on almost every gun manufacturer's site. 2) It is taught in safety classes. 3) It is echoed in many pro-gun sites. 4) Not just the USA, but countries from Europe to South America also cite this rule.
It doesn't get more universal than that.
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Originally Posted by War Beagle
These are the universal safety rules for guns, which every responsible gun owner knows. The claptrap about "guns have to be locked up and stored separately" isn't a UNIVERSAL (meaning applies to everyone at all times) safety rule because its not applicable in all situations. I live in a house with no kids - just my wife and I. We both know the big 4 gun safety rules. With no kids in the house, there is no danger to us to keep guns loaded. When visitors are in the house, the guns are put away.
Again, the argument that a gun has to be kept locked up at all times and away from ammo assumes that guns are going to start firing on their own. Anyone making that argument clearly has little-to-no experience with firearms.
The fact you had to state this is proof positive this guy is 100% a novice when it comes to guns. This has become a highly amusing thread.
I find it amusing that people thinks I don't know the basic gun safety rule, when I was the one who is telling you guys about rules that you are not aware of. That you'd think the person who know stuff that you don't, is somehow ignorant of stuff that you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle
No it won't, it just won't. Reality isn't some movie where guns start spraying rounds all over the place at the drop of a hat. Gun companies do not want to get sued for accidents. Consequently, the vast majority of guns require several pounds of pressure applied to the trigger to fire. Clearly you have never been to a range or you would know the amount of pressure needed to fire a gun is enough that fingers get tired rather quickly
Guns are not sentient beings with minds of their own. If a person follows the big 4 gun rules a firearm is not going to accidentally discharge.
And you're calling me novice? You have not been paying attention if you think guns don't discharge accidentally.
No one is saying that it will fire on its own, but guns have been known to discharge accidentally when being handled. Someone showing a friend his gun and pop! Someone dropped a gun and it went off (I know, they're not supposed to discharge like that right? Think again). Someone thought the safety is on, etc, etc. These types of real life accidents is why the rule exist.
Oh yeah, a person is supposed to assume that the gun is loaded. You know what, s___ happens. Everyone has lapses. Many people knew that rule somehow still had accidental discharges, fancy that.
Many years ago, in Colorado, I attended a hunter safety course with my dad. I still remember to this day the rule that was ground into me: Keep your firearms and ammunition in separate secured/locked locations until you plan to use them.
This rule has been taught in safety classes, I'm surprised this many gun owners don't know about it.
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No one is saying that it will fire on its own, but guns have been known to discharge accidentally when being handled. Someone showing a friend his gun and pop! Someone dropped a gun and it went off (I know, they're not supposed to discharge like that right? Think again). Someone thought the safety is on, etc, etc. These types of real life accidents is why the rule exist.
These are people not following Rule #3 and putting their fingers on the trigger. That is much different than the gun going off on its own.
Also, your rule isn't universal because there is a difference between the use of firearms for hunting and the use of firearms for protection. If someone has a firearm for hunting, it makes complete sense to keep the gun and the ammo separate. You know exactly when you will need to use both. Defense carrying is a completely different animal. You have no idea when you will need the firearm if it is for defense.
Is it technically safer to keep a gun separate from its ammo? Yes, if your concern is a child or gun novice getting their hands on the gun. However, if the concern is protecting yourself and/or family from danger, then storing the gun and ammo separately is more dangerous.
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