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Probably one thing to realize is that New York, as a state, is a massive net federal contributor of taxes but a fairly minor contributor in terms of getting federal expenditure and this has been the case for a very long time. This is made doubly absurd because several of those net taker states end up trying to poach from net federal giver states by hugely undercutting their own state tax base to lure New York State corporations to incorporate there as well as lure New York residents. Some of these states which have very low state taxes are able to do so artificially through the disproportionate amount of tax receipts they get. It's a real screwjob for several Northeastern and Upper Midwestern states with New York State often getting it among the worst.
The corruption is a whole other issue though--that just needs to be destroyed and it seems like there's been much greater recognizance and actual action being made in these last several years. Between Preet Bharara and Eric Schneiderman, we've seen the putting away of many, many corrupt politicians including two of the three men in the room. Whether or not this can effect permanent and lasting change is still to be determined.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 05-14-2016 at 09:44 AM..
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,545,770 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby
I agree with you. Understand though that not everyone in the NYC area are the liberal variety. It's just that large cities are a magnet for these types so we here are overwhelmed by them. It's only getting worse since many of the middle class, blue collar people are leaving.
Granted. There are always exceptions to the rule, it can't be much easier for a level head from the city to be heard under the parade of loud demanding voices. I'd urge folks like yourself to move perhaps, but I understand the attachment to home.
That's what brought me back here when I lost my home, instead of where I'd prefer to be. Family ties.
I'll put it this way, no matter where you're from, if you aren't a jerk about it and try to forcibly change all the locals to fit your needs, then I welcome you with open arms. In fact I wish we had more of that sort.
Of all the transplants I've met, I only know one woman from Connecticut who's not mean spirited or condescending. She's the kind of person I wish more of them were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker
New York's current governor after the passage of the "Safe Act" once stated that those that "do not think like him" are not welcome in New York. So much for the civil discourse and tolerance that they so demand of others. The "Safe Act" was nothing more than political retribution against those who "do not think like him". Yet they can't seem to figure out why so many have come to detest and loath them so?
I appreciated your entire reply, but I had something to say in return to these excerpts in particular.
I very much dislike that man. He's succeeded in making me feel unwelcome in the state I was born in, but all its done is make me do what I can to hold back the bright blue tide a bit. I'll never understand why a middle ground is unreasonable to so many people, especially the "open minded" liberals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker
Don't despair there brother. There are plenty of other states where one can move to and not have to put up with all that crap. Best to let them wallow in their own misery.
If all else fails, there are. Frankly, I wish downstate would become its own state or the southern tier would become part of PA (where most of it belongs in my opinion). Unfortunately these things are unlikely, and as NY becomes more and more hostile to anybody purple to red, the more I'll feel as though we lost. To have to move would in part feel like a failure to me.
I could return to PA happily. I could live in WV happily as well, or far flung enough maybe return to the deeper south and move to Tennessee. However, I'd like to see NY state turn back around towards center and I want to assist in that.
Here in the southern tier, even in rural parts of Tompkins county, a lot of the people are not mega liberals nor do they demand too much from life in general. It makes me happy when I see life going on quietly around here, but my heart drops a bit when I see signs about the safe act or billboards for the move to ban cigarettes from convenience stores. It reminds me that even out here in the hills, far far from NYC, their influence is bothering everybody. It has to stop. This isn't their NY, it's our NY, and it's a totally different world here. All the more reason downstate should break away.
People here like to hunt and fish, they like to smoke, they go muddin' in trucks and four-wheelers, many attend church services, they like to feel free and American. A lot of us feel like that's being stolen from us slowly but surely by the "Everything is bad" politics from the city.
Granted. There are always exceptions to the rule, it can't be much easier for a level head from the city to be heard under the parade of loud demanding voices. I'd urge folks like yourself to move perhaps, but I understand the attachment to home.
That's what brought me back here when I lost my home, instead of where I'd prefer to be. Family ties.
I'll put it this way, no matter where you're from, if you aren't a jerk about it and try to forcibly change all the locals to fit your needs, then I welcome you with open arms. In fact I wish we had more of that sort.
Of all the transplants I've met, I only know one woman from Connecticut who's not mean spirited or condescending. She's the kind of person I wish more of them were.
I appreciated your entire reply, but I had something to say in return to these excerpts in particular.
I very much dislike that man. He's succeeded in making me feel unwelcome in the state I was born in, but all its done is make me do what I can to hold back the bright blue tide a bit. I'll never understand why a middle ground is unreasonable to so many people, especially the "open minded" liberals.
If all else fails, there are. Frankly, I wish downstate would become its own state or the southern tier would become part of PA (where most of it belongs in my opinion). Unfortunately these things are unlikely, and as NY becomes more and more hostile to anybody purple to red, the more I'll feel as though we lost. To have to move would in part feel like a failure to me.
I could return to PA happily. I could live in WV happily as well, or far flung enough maybe return to the deeper south and move to Tennessee. However, I'd like to see NY state turn back around towards center and I want to assist in that.
Here in the southern tier, even in rural parts of Tompkins county, a lot of the people are not mega liberals nor do they demand too much from life in general. It makes me happy when I see life going on quietly around here, but my heart drops a bit when I see signs about the safe act or billboards for the move to ban cigarettes from convenience stores. It reminds me that even out here in the hills, far far from NYC, their influence is bothering everybody. It has to stop. This isn't their NY, it's our NY, and it's a totally different world here. All the more reason downstate should break away.
People here like to hunt and fish, they like to smoke, they go muddin' in trucks and four-wheelers, many attend church services, they like to feel free and American. A lot of us feel like that's being stolen from us slowly but surely by the "Everything is bad" politics from the city.
Well thank you! Judging by your posts, I think we both have a lot in common.
I agree with you about transplants. Although that's what we are. We moved to Arizona because we wanted to be here for what it is, one of the last bastions of freedom in the United States. I'd never want it to become another New York or God forbid California. I won't even set foot in that God awful state. We have quite a few friends out here that moved from there. All strict "Constitutionalists" such as we are. And I thought New York was bad. California makes New York seem Conservative.
I don't understand why anybody would move to another state and wish to turn it into the place they've just left. People who do that really have no business moving there in the first place. Before moving you really have to know what you want and what to expect when you get there. If you do that everything will work out fine.
Sad to say I don't think New York or California will ever change at least not to our liking. They're too far gone. It would take decades to undo all the damage that Progressives have done. The problem with both of those states is that, as Margaret Thatcher once said: "Eventually they will run out of other people's money".
Probably one thing to realize is that New York, as a state, is a massive net federal contributor of taxes but a fairly minor contributor in terms of getting federal expenditure and this has been the case for a very long time. This is made doubly absurd because several of those net taker states end up trying to poach from net federal giver states by hugely undercutting their own state tax base to lure New York State corporations to incorporate there as well as lure New York residents. Some of these states which have very low state taxes are able to do so artificially through the disproportionate amount of tax receipts they get. It's a real screwjob for several Northeastern and Upper Midwestern states with New York State often getting it among the worst.
The corruption is a whole other issue though--that just needs to be destroyed and it seems like there's been much greater recognizance and actual action being made in these last several years. Between Preet Bharara and Eric Schneiderman, we've seen the putting away of many, many corrupt politicians including two of the three men in the room. Whether or not this can effect permanent and lasting change is still to be determined.
That's just a bunch of Progressive nonsense. New York is a socialist welfare state which cost a lot of money. Then they have the stranglehold of the public employees and teachers unions, AFSCME, CSEA and the UFT. Why should other states that responsibly manage their resources be forced to bail out states that don't?
People and corporations move out because of the astronomical cost of both living and doing business there. It's no more complicated than that. My wife and I both worked for a company that went down south. They let us know in no uncertain terms why they were leaving.
Sure they pay a lot in federal taxes. Most of which comes from the financial industry and those nice big fat Wall Street bonuses. No matter what state you live in if you make a lot of money you pay a lot in federal taxes. New York and it's metro area has a lot of high wage jobs that are ripe for the taking.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,409 posts, read 6,545,770 times
Reputation: 6253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker
Well thank you! Judging by your posts, I think we both have a lot in common.
I agree with you about transplants. Although that's what we are. We moved to Arizona because we wanted to be here for what it is, one of the last bastions of freedom in the United States. I'd never want it to become another New York or God forbid California. I won't even set foot in that God awful state. We have quite a few friends out here that moved from there. All strict "Constitutionalists" such as we are. And I thought New York was bad. California makes New York seem Conservative.
I don't understand why anybody would move to another state and wish to turn it into the place they've just left. People who do that really have no business moving there in the first place. Before moving you really have to know what you want and what to expect when you get there. If you do that everything will work out fine.
Sad to say I don't think New York or California will ever change at least not to our liking. They're too far gone. It would take decades to undo all the damage that Progressives have done. The problem with both of those states is that, as Margaret Thatcher once said: "Eventually they will run out of other people's money".
Oh I know it, you'd never catch me dead in California. Perhaps I'll visit someday, I would like to see the redwood forest, but that's the extent of my relationship with the state.
On that note I have no desire to move to coastal New England either. If I had to choose a state in NE, it'd be Maine or New Hampshire.
As I said before I'm a moderate. I'm pro gun, pro tobacco; but I have no qualms with gay marriage either. That's where I felt at odds with Louisiana when I lived there. However, I was at least allowed to carry a firearm openly there. A freedom I appreciated when traversing high-crime Baton Rouge, and frankly being the wrong color (white). Advice: stay out of north BR.
When things fell apart and I returned to NY, I had to sell my pistols. NY had just passed the SAFE act and my hand guns were illegal by its standards, and I didn't have the cash to safely make any alterations, nor was I willing to.
Personally I was going to keep them anyhow. Chances of prison be damned. But my family were very concerned as illegal firearms carry a strict punishment. As much as we all hated it, they were right and I sold them.
My family, btw, are pro gun and conservative-Christians. They just really didn't want to see me get caught.
I do still have my rifles though, and I have NO intention of letting them go under any circumstance.
I digress, you are entirely correct on this- I don't understand why anybody would move to another state and wish to turn it into the place they've just left. People who do that really have no business moving there in the first place. Before moving you really have to know what you want and what to expect when you get there. If you do that everything will work out fine.
That is a message that needs to spread like wild-fire. But too many people are so self important and stuck up that they will not learn that lesson. Ithaca, for example, has been sending college students from Ithaca and Cornell to vote in Schuyler county against gas storage, and protest gas storage along our roads.
Yes, how dare we bring economy into snails-pace tourist-based Schuyler county. How dare we need money and store a resource that will be entirely safe if handled with care. HOW DARE WE, ITHACA!?
Also, I still do not understand the emphasis in these articles about immigrants, when NY has ALWAYS been a state where immigrants have entered the country from the beginning.
Because Immigrants coming in is what keeping NYS's demographics from nosediving. Secondly, for those immigrants before NYS was a transitory place -- on they were on their way to another state.
Now given NYS generous welfare (on the backs of middle class) NYS attracts these Democratic voters.
So basically NYS is fleecing the middle class so it can import more Democratic voters, so it can fleece the middle class even more.
In other words, middle class is paying for its own demise.
Because Immigrants coming in is what keeping NYS's demographics from nosediving. Secondly, for those immigrants before NYS was a transitory place -- on they were on their way to another state.
Now given NYS generous welfare (on the backs of middle class) NYS attracts these Democratic voters.
So basically NYS is fleecing the middle class so it can import more Democratic voters, so it can fleece the middle class even more.
In other words, middle class is paying for its own demise.
If this is the case, then this has always been the reality for the state.
Also, how many are actually allowed or actually vote?
Probably one thing to realize is that New York, as a state, is a massive net federal contributor of taxes but a fairly minor contributor in terms of getting federal expenditure and this has been the case for a very long time. This is made doubly absurd because several of those net taker states end up trying to poach from net federal giver states by hugely undercutting their own state tax base to lure New York State corporations to incorporate there as well as lure New York residents. Some of these states which have very low state taxes are able to do so artificially through the disproportionate amount of tax receipts they get. It's a real screwjob for several Northeastern and Upper Midwestern states with New York State often getting it among the worst.
The corruption is a whole other issue though--that just needs to be destroyed and it seems like there's been much greater recognizance and actual action being made in these last several years. Between Preet Bharara and Eric Schneiderman, we've seen the putting away of many, many corrupt politicians including two of the three men in the room. Whether or not this can effect permanent and lasting change is still to be determined.
This is actually a good point that is often not considered.
Because Immigrants coming in is what keeping NYS's demographics from nosediving. Secondly, for those immigrants before NYS was a transitory place -- on they were on their way to another state.
Now given NYS generous welfare (on the backs of middle class) NYS attracts these Democratic voters.
So basically NYS is fleecing the middle class so it can import more Democratic voters, so it can fleece the middle class even more.
In other words, middle class is paying for its own demise.
That's exactly what the Democrat's plan is. Not just for New York but for the entire country. A perpetually impoverished class of people will always be dependent on government and keep demanding more. Hence the need to import more impoverished people into this country by allowing for unchecked illegal immigration.
There are not enough rich people around to fully support this burgeoning class of people. Not only that if they tax the hell out of the rich there will no longer be an incentive to achieve anything. It's much easier and more practical to tax the hell out of the middle class. Eventually the middle class will soon find themselves pushed so far down the economic ladder and in need or even demanding that they be taken care of too. Bankrupting the wealthy will kill off all the jobs and then whole rotten structure will come crashing down. Even in a Socialist society there has to be some source of revenue or the alternative would be forced labor. The only ones that will be ahead are those that are ruling over us.
Unfortunately this is the direction we are headed. Every time there is a Democratic administration the United States of America takes one step closer to Socialism.
Does any of this sound familiar?
1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people
2) Poverty – Increase the poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.
3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.
4) Gun Control – Remove the people’s ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state.
5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (food, housing, and income)
6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.
7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the Government and schools
8) Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to take (tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.
I just don't understand why so many people place their faith and trust in government? Government is a corrupt entity and a monopoly. Taxpayers are an endless resource of money and nothing more than an ATM for government. They have the power to tax unmercifully. There's absolutely no incentive to properly manage how it's being spent. People will lie, cheat, steal and prostitute themselves down to the lowest common denominator for some crummy little political office. Are these the types of people that we want to enslave ourselves to?
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 05-15-2016 at 08:19 AM..
That's just a bunch of Progressive nonsense. New York is a socialist welfare state which cost a lot of money. Then they have the stranglehold of the public employees and teachers unions, AFSCME, CSEA and the UFT. Why should other states that responsibly manage their resources be forced to bail out states that don't?
People and corporations move out because of the astronomical cost of both living and doing business there. It's no more complicated than that. My wife and I both worked for a company that went down south. They let us know in no uncertain terms why they were leaving.
Sure they pay a lot in federal taxes. Most of which comes from the financial industry and those nice big fat Wall Street bonuses. No matter what state you live in if you make a lot of money you pay a lot in federal taxes. New York and it's metro area has a lot of high wage jobs that are ripe for the taking.
Which part is progressive nonsense? The federal tax outflow to inflow part? What seems nonsensical about wanting to have larger allocations of the federal budget when residents of the state push so much more into it.
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