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Meh, maybe some kind of third party candidate will actually end up being viable. Hell of a hail mary though.
No that wouldn't be any good. You could have 34% of the country selecting a president that 66% would oppose if the 66% were split evenly. Like it or not a two party system is the only practical way to go. I think this next presidential election is going to be one great big hail Mary. My God, this has been such an interesting dialog.
Oh I agree we do have to do something to rid this nation of all the illegal invaders and their families regardless of how long they've been here.
No, I only meant that it would be impossible to go door to door and round up all the illegal invaders. I don't think any of us want to live in a "show me your papers" type of society. There's also the Constitutional matter of due process. Every illegal invader would have their day in court, The costs would be astronomical. It's up to the government to prove that they are here illegally. Remember, innocent until proven guilty. Without the right of due process, anyone at any time could be arrested for anything and thrown in jail without a trial.
I really wish we could round them all up and deport them including all of the anchor babies. But sacrificing our civil liberties is not the way to go. What wouldn't be impossible is to turn off the spigot that attracts them as I've mentioned before. They would have no reason to come here and those who remain will have no reason to stay. It also wouldn't be in violation of the Constitution. We do not owe these invaders anything, they are not entitled to anything. Turn off the spigot, arrest all those who aid and abet them including religious institutions and these invaders will self deport.
We're both on the same page there brother. You make some very valid points, and I agree with you 100% it's just that our methods of solving this problem are slightly different.
I really enjoy your posts. But I do disagree with you an another point -- due process rights for illegal aliens. Constitution (14th Amendment) does not protect illegal aliens, and does not provide them with due process rights. Yes, they are technically "invaders." We do not provide due process to invaders.
As usual, liberals have turned 14th Amendment into a pretzel to say that illegal aliens are afforded due process rights.
Govt has to carry out due process for people under the jurisdiction of the United States. Citizens and legal residents, for which the US Govt has accepted as under its protection, enjoy due process.
As an illegal alien, you don't get to decide that you are under the protection of US Constitution.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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One of the biggest anchors for illegals in this country are those who employ them. They work all day for peanuts, as far we're concerned.
An American worker (rightfully) demands a decent pay and a daily break. Too much for the selfish to consider when they have Jose "plants for pennies" at their beckon.
Also, why would those immigrants at the southern border come all the way to NY, when CA is right there and would put up minimal resistance? Many are going to UT, CO, NV and even parts of WY, OR, ID, WA and MT.
As a resident of CA, I would agree that it provides the necessary tools needed for any illegal immigrant - endless sanctuary cities and counties, state driver license for illegals, Medi-Cal health insurance but some of those are being overwhelmed with current illegals. I know states like OR and WA are very similar with their liberal views and policies so that may actually provide more cash type job opportunities that they may find in CA now. If you drive by any Home Depot or Lowe's in Southern CA it is just loaded with workers waiting for the next job.
In CA, some of the counties likes LA certainly have a huge cash based economy - below is a link for how big the cash based economy was in 2002 - certainly it is much larger now and has moved to other adjacent counties.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Also, why would those immigrants at the southern border come all the way to NY, when CA is right there and would put up minimal resistance? Many are going to UT, CO, NV and even parts of WY, OR, ID, WA and MT
Actually, you'd be surprised how many illegal Mexicans work in the vineyards here.
One of the biggest anchors for illegals in this country are those who employ them. They work all day for peanuts, as far we're concerned.
An American worker (rightfully) demands a decent pay and a daily break. Too much for the selfish to consider when they have Jose "plants for pennies" at their beckon.
I also think that this is a primary pathway for curbing illegal immigration. The main driver for illegal immigration is economic. If businesses were to actually face severe punishments and there was a strong enough enforcement system, then illegal immigration wold be curbed substantially. There are multiple reasons for why this is among the most effective pathways. One is that these laws are already on the books to some extent but are lacking in enforcement, the other is that US businesses are much easier to track than individuals, and finally, this can be coupled with policies and sentiments that can be appealing to multiple ends of the political spectrum. That last one can be achieved by having the context of this argument be about fair and equitable wages rather than strictly about illegal immigration. If there is an effective regulatory body enforcing that conditions and wages are humane and equitable for all workers, then what is the benefit to employers of hiring someone who is primarily only Spanish speaking and not familiar with the culture compared to an American employee? Meanwhile, that stricter oversight of conditions also means a much higher chance of being caught employing illegal immigrants so combined this should curb much of the economic incentive for such hiring.
However, this is something that would have to be done on the federal level as patchwork state by state level enforcement wouldn't really work and would cause some states to have an unfair competitive advantage.
I really enjoy your posts. But I do disagree with you an another point -- due process rights for illegal aliens. Constitution (14th Amendment) does not protect illegal aliens, and does not provide them with due process rights. Yes, they are technically "invaders." We do not provide due process to invaders.
As usual, liberals have turned 14th Amendment into a pretzel to say that illegal aliens are afforded due process rights.
Govt has to carry out due process for people under the jurisdiction of the United States. Citizens and legal residents, for which the US Govt has accepted as under its protection, enjoy due process.
As an illegal alien, you don't get to decide that you are under the protection of US Constitution.
Due process is, uh, a process. The problem is due process is in order while the court is figuring out what your status is (such as whether or not you're staying here illegally). It's important to understand the nuts and bolts of how something would work.
No that wouldn't be any good. You could have 34% of the country selecting a president that 66% would oppose if the 66% were split evenly. Like it or not a two party system is the only practical way to go. I think this next presidential election is going to be one great big hail Mary. My God, this has been such an interesting dialog.
It doesn't look like either party is going to be thrilled with so I don't see where I'd be losing out. I would rather throw votes to a third party and hope that, though it almost certainly won't win, at least gets enough to signal itself as a major player for future elections.
Anyhow, wandering so off topic now. Uh, I hope thay Preet and Eric's pursual of corrupt NYS politicians creates lasting, effective change. In that respect, things may be looking up for the state?
It doesn't look like either party is going to be thrilled with so I don't see where I'd be losing out. I would rather throw votes to a third party and hope that, though it almost certainly won't win, at least gets enough to signal itself as a major player for future elections.
Anyhow, wandering so off topic now. Uh, I hope thay Preet and Eric's pursual of corrupt NYS politicians creates lasting, effective change. In that respect, things may be looking up for the state?
I meant to say, "It doesn't look like either party is going to be fielding a candidate I'll be thrilled with" yadda yadda yadda.
And, uh, pursuit rather than "pursual." And no, "thay" in there. Sorry, typing on these dinky smartphones is not my strong suit.
Due process is, uh, a process. The problem is due process is in order while the court is figuring out what your status is (such as whether or not you're staying here illegally). It's important to understand the nuts and bolts of how something would work.
By jove you've got it ol' Bean! We can't just walk up to someone arrest them and accuse them of being in this country illegally just because they're of a different nationality, the color of their skin or they way they look. There are many people that are in this country legally that fit that profile. Our basic civil rights are far too valuable to go down that road.
Although FDR did it during World War Two when they rounded up the Japanese and sent them to internment camps. I can kind of sympathize with that decision, after all they did bomb Pearl Harbor. But as a "Constitutionalist" I'm vehemently against it. Funny they didn't do that to the Germans or Italians whom we were also fighting against. A blatant disregard of the Constitution if there ever was one, and a sad chapter in our history.
However, we can turn off the spigot that attracts these illegal invaders. Providing them with absolutely nothing and arrest all those who aid, abet, harbor and provide comfort to them including politicians. Which is already illegal and would pass Constitutional muster. We can also vigorously enforce our immigration laws, instead of turning a blind eye to it. If we did all of the above the tens of millions of illegal invaders would more than likely return to their countries of origin. As conditions here would be far worse for them than where they came from. Let's face it they are here to take, take, take. They have no allegiance to this country, they display their foreign flags, bring down wages, steal jobs and social benefits that are reserved for American citizens. Very few countries even allow for this, and we are fools for letting it go on for so long. A nation without borders is no nation at all.
We are losing our sovereignty and the longer we allow for this we will be no better off than the third world countries that these illegal invaders came from.
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