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Yeah, actually. It does happen; albeit not quite as often. I have served some people from Syracuse before at the winery who commented on how dumpy Yates county (where the tasting room is) was in their opinion.
Interesting.....I don't know or think that is necessarily a wide spread sentiment. I've been to Penn Yan and thought that it is a nice village.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Interesting.....I don't know or think that is necessarily a wide spread sentiment. I've been to Penn Yan and thought that it is a nice village.
It is.
When I spoke of the perceptions I also meant more abroad, how the rest of the country sees NY. Those are the perceptions I always had to battle against. Being met with the "I don't believe you" answers.
In fact when I lived in Louisiana my room mate's brother's girlfriend (yes that's not made up :P), from Texas originally, flat out said it sounded like I was lying about my entire history. From the country portion to the poverty portion to the very idea of redneck presence in NY state at all. She looked me dead in the eye and told me she thought I was making the whole thing up.
Now, if I had been from Pennsylvania, or even better, WV or Kentucky, they NEVER would have questioned any of it. But because I was from NY I must have been fibbing.
That's the kind of thing I mean about perceptions abroad.
Every time I take a drive down a valley here and see old barns, muddin' trucks, trailer parks, and northerners flying confederate flags I jokingly think to myself, "Look at all this stuff that doesn't exist according to the south".
Just went to Corning today actually. Ate at Bob Evans. had a friendly chat at the Tractor Supply with a complete stranger. Admired the massive hills and drove by all kinds of things that totally don't exist here.
Got into Watkins Glen the other day and was again faced with how many transplants there are now from NYC and Jersey. And the attitude came with them. So much of the small town mind set is just... gone. It's sad.
The more people move out of upstate the better. It will reduce the financial burden on downstate. What would be even better is to consolidate the population into the few upstate cities and turn those unproductive rural areas back into nature and expand parkland.
Not surprising, as it is saying the same things that have been said on here for years between people retiring, moving to adjacent states(with some still working in NYS), negative population estimates(key word), to those moving South to real/perceived affordable areas, jobs, property taxes and immigrants(which have always been a part of the NYS population narrative).
Just because something is repeated over and over does not make it less true, or more acceptable. It's bad, and there is no nice way of sugarcoating it.
As NYS taxpayer and with 2 kids in Public Schools, what's even worse is -- people who are moving out are "givers" for NYS coffers, while the incoming residents are "takers."
Yes, I repeat. It is bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
So the woman is an IDIOT, and/or the article is just propaganda.
So this 52-year old woman, and the 38-year old man with his wife and 2 daughters are idiots for moving, and don't know what they're doing with their personal situation, but you do?
Often, It absolutely makes sense financially to move to higher value home into a lower property tax. You have to be financially illiterate to not understand it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
There are no fast growing parts of the country these days. This isn't the 80s.
Of course there are. States like Nevada, Utah, Texas, Wyoming, North Dakota have grown about 20% in the last 10-15 years. Demographically it is huge increase for peace time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz
The more people move out of upstate the better. It will reduce the financial burden on downstate. What would be even better is to consolidate the population into the few upstate cities and turn those unproductive rural areas back into nature and expand parkland.
How can you want progress, but not want growth? Economic diversity is part of growth. NYS has actually done some good things in agriculture. What's wrong with agriculture?
High concentration of people into urban areas is very unappealing to many people. Even after 150 years of industrialization. Don't we want people to have mobility and live whereever the **** they want? Who the **** are "you" to decide where they should live?
The thing is that the state isn't losing in overall population, but it is a matter of where and who is replacing people that leave.
Also, not all immigrants are takers and those that give are retirees that are likely to leave anyway. Some of the givers may stay in the NYC metro and still work in NYC, but live in NJ or PA.
Those Western and Midwestern states have nowhere to go but up, given the amount of land and the current industries. With that said, growth alone doesn't mean everything and other factors outside of affordability have to be considered, including other aspects of costs.
Lastly, the people that want to keep their little piece of government and want things to structurally stay the same have as much to do with why taxes are the way they are. Doing the same thing and expecting a different result in the definition of insanity. So, this is why governmental structure has to be taken into account, especially given the school tax portion of the property tax bills.
For me leaving NY would not be just about taxes or cost of living. It'd be about politics and culture.
Politically NY is forcibly too far left and anybody moderate (myself) or conservative (most of my rural neighbors and family) have ABSOLUTELY NO voice in anything here because of the overwhelmingly liberal giants such as NYC, Albany, Ithaca/Cornell, Rochester, Syracuse.
And yet these city folk keep passing or pushing laws on everybody that are inconvenient or downright broken for those living in the small town and country sectors of the state.
NYC/downstate should either fall off into the ocean or become its own state in my opinion.
Culturally I've seen so much of the local flavor being buried by droves of transplants from New Jersey, Connecticut and Rhode Island. Local friendliness? Dying. Local speech? Dying.
While not all of them are rude and callous people, far too many are, and they are ruining the atmosphere this part of the state had with their entitled garbage.
Not to mention making it even harder for the poor already here to get by and live their life in peace. "You can't have that gun! You can't have those cars in your field! You can't have a job because we think that industry is bad for the environment! NAG NAG NAG"
Perception-wise I am tired of being told I am making my history up because of all the stereotypes about NY. The reason so many people in the south or out west don't believe that NY is anything other than urbane, rude, selfish, liberal and "holier than thou" is because those people run the state and advertise it that way. They crowd the tourist areas, they run the wineries, they travel to other states, act like jerks, and give us all a bad name.
I'd rather live in PA where if I tell somebody I'm a country man from the hills I am met with "alright" instead of "I don't believe you".
I get sick of defending my history against the heavy stereotyping of NY. I'm tired of not having a political voice if it doesn't agree with mega liberals. I'm tired of people from Jersey or Connecticut moving out here, looking down on us and complaining because they had to build a well for their new three story mansion in the forest. I'm tired of then being represented by and lumped in with those transplants when out of staters visit.
I'm not alone on this. Far from it.
So it isn't JUST taxes that are driving people away, it's the invasive urban culture routing all the natives too.
A BIG AMEN THERE BROTHER! Just as with every Socialist hell hole. Liberalism makes life miserable for the vast majority of people who are forced to live under and support it. Unfortunately that majority is now the minority as the "takers" are now outnumbering the "makers". I just can't for the life of me understand why so many are so willing to relinquish all of their civil liberties at the hands of a corrupt authoritarian statist type of government? Liberals believe in a "living breathing Constitution" which is akin to no Constitutional guarantees at all. It is what they say it is. This is exactly what the founders of this nation were afraid of. An out of control statist form of government usurping the "God given" civil rights of the people. It was the reason for fighting a revolution in the first place.
New York's current governor after the passage of the "Safe Act" once stated that those that "do not think like him" are not welcome in New York. So much for the civil discourse and tolerance that they so demand of others. The "Safe Act" was nothing more than political retribution against those who "do not think like him". Yet they can't seem to figure out why so many have come to detest and loath them so?
Don't despair there brother. There are plenty of other states where one can move to and not have to put up with all that crap. Best to let them wallow in their own misery.
Take the word God out of the picture than all of the laws and protections under the "Constitution" will become irrelevant as there will no longer be a higher authority that guarantees that those rights will remain intact. For the record I am not a religious person but fully understand why the words God and "our creator" were used in drafting the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights which spelled out exactly which rights were protected.
Now let all the name calling and derogatory comments begin, that's all they've got.
Quote:
“But to ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow. … For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding.” Jeff Snyder
Quote:
"The law has been used to destroy it's own objective; It has been applied to annihilating the justice that it was supposed to maintain; to limiting and destroying rights which it's real purpose was to respect. The law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish, without risk, to exploit the person, liberty, and property of others. It has converted plunder into a right in order to protect plunder. And it has converted lawful defense into a crime, in order to punish lawful defense." "But it is also true that a man may live and satisfy his wants by seizing and consuming the products of the labor of others. This process is the origin of plunder." --- The Law by Frederic Bastiat (1801-1850) French economist, statesman, and author.
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 05-14-2016 at 09:34 AM..
Just because something is repeated over and over does not make it less true, or more acceptable. It's bad, and there is no nice way of sugarcoating it.
As NYS taxpayer and with 2 kids in Public Schools, what's even worse is -- people who are moving out are "givers" for NYS coffers, while the incoming residents are "takers."
Yes, I repeat. It is bad.
So this 52-year old woman, and the 38-year old man with his wife and 2 daughters are idiots for moving, and don't know what they're doing with their personal situation, but you do?
Often, It absolutely makes sense financially to move to higher value home into a lower property tax. You have to be financially illiterate to not understand it.
Of course there are. States like Nevada, Utah, Texas, Wyoming, North Dakota have grown about 20% in the last 10-15 years. Demographically it is huge increase for peace time.
How can you want progress, but not want growth? Economic diversity is part of growth. NYS has actually done some good things in agriculture. What's wrong with agriculture?
High concentration of people into urban areas is very unappealing to many people. Even after 150 years of industrialization. Don't we want people to have mobility and live whereever the **** they want? Who the **** are "you" to decide where they should live?
This mindset is tyrannical and primitive.
Oh indeed it is. They just don't get it. No use trying to convince them, they believe in an authoritarian state of which they have absolute control.
Quote:
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.--Lord Acton
New York State is a perfect example of that. It has one of the most corrupt legislatures in the country. Just look at the number of members that have already been indicted or have been sent to prison already. This goes for both political parties. Didja' ever think that you'd see the day when ol' Shelley would go to jail? Or Skelos?
Quote:
The Many Faces of New York's Political Scandals -... http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...nyregion/23mor...
May 3, 2016 ... Pleaded guilty to using state workers to chauffeur his wife; later pleaded guilty for his role in a sprawling corruption scandal involving the state ...
New York Corruption - Huffington Post New York Corruption
May 11 (Reuters) - New York State Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos on Monday said he would resign .... ANOTHER NY Politician Arrested For Corruption.
Study proves NY politicians most corrupt in nation... http://nypost.com/2015/11/09/study-p...oliticians-mos...
Nov 9, 2015 ... ALBANY – We're No. 1 – in corruption. No other state has more legislators forced out of office by ethical or criminal issues than New York, ...
New York State Leads The Nation In Political... New York State Leads The Nation In Political Corruption - Vocativ...
UPDATE: Former New York State Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos and his 33-year-old son, Adam, were convicted on Friday on eight counts of bribery, ...
The thing is that the state isn't losing in overall population, but it is a matter of where and who is replacing people that leave.
Also, not all immigrants are takers and those that give are retirees that are likely to leave anyway. Some of the givers may stay in the NYC metro and still work in NYC, but live in NJ or PA.
Those Western and Midwestern states have nowhere to go but up, given the amount of land and the current industries. With that said, growth alone doesn't mean everything and other factors outside of affordability have to be considered, including other aspects of costs.
Lastly, the people that want to keep their little piece of government and want things to structurally stay the same have as much to do with why taxes are the way they are. Doing the same thing and expecting a different result in the definition of insanity. So, this is why governmental structure has to be taken into account, especially given the school tax portion of the property tax bills.
That's exactly right. However let's not confuse "immigrants" who are here legally and contribute to society with illegal invaders who take more from society than what they could ever put in. Those are the type of "immigrants" that are taking over states such as California and New York. Those that are left, the "makers" little by little are moving out. The burden then falls on the shoulders of those that for some reason or the other are stuck there. So much for looking out for the middle class that Progressives often brag about. Oh but it's all for the greater good, they say.
It's amazing that so many people detest the financial industry? The one industry which I believe keeps New York State afloat. Can you imagine what would happen if it were to leave? Liberals love to scapegoat Wall Street. Talk about biting the hand that feeds them.
I really consider myself to be one of the lucky ones that had the opportunity and freedom to be able to choose where I wanted to live. I was born and raised in New York, spent most of my life there. However it's political situation is totally incompatible with my way of thinking. Word's can't express how much happier we are to have gotten out of there.
It's nice being in a position to have lived in two different places and making a comparison. No question about it one can have a much better quality of life once they leave New York especially it's metro area. It's just such a pleasure to be able to buy things that you want and not just out of necessity. Not having to worry that if something breaks you can afford to fix it instead of using a credit card and going into debt. Compared to watching most of your disposable income going to the insatiable demands of New York's state and local governments and the MTA, which are a wholly owned subsidiary of it's public employee's and teachers unions.
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 05-14-2016 at 09:31 AM..
I agree with you. Understand though that not everyone in the NYC area are the liberal variety. It's just that large cities are a magnet for these types so we here are overwhelmed by them. It's only getting worse since many of the middle class, blue collar people are leaving.
People have to realize that NY is a very diverse state in many ways. So, you are going find all kinds of people within the state.
Also, I still do not understand the emphasis in these articles about immigrants, when NY has ALWAYS been a state where immigrants have entered the country from the beginning. So, immigrants moving to the state and adding to the population has ALWAYS occurred.
Another thing that has been mentioned on the forum before is that NY is one of a handful of states where moving to the suburbs of its biggest city could also mean moving to another state. In turn, these people could be contributing to the state economically, as they may still work in the state.
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