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Ah.....so what would be the second or third offense then. It's not like I'm disagreeing with you on that "first offense" statement BTW. Something tells me that not too many folks would use a drug sniffing dog or call the law on thier children for first offenses. When it's an ongoing battle...what then?
If your child can't stop, because he/she has an addictive personality, or is addicted to something other than cannabis, which is not physically addicting, then you get them counseling, in-patient counseling if needed, but you don't give up and call the cops unless they are violent to themselves or others. Time is critical. Once they are past age 18 there is less you can do.
Treatment, if it's needed, and it's really only needed for the addicted, not the casual user. The casual user can stop by themselves if they want to, the addicted need help. Sometimes the help they get doesn't "stick". This is typical, as any counselor worth anything will tell you. You have to try again and maybe again. Children are not disposable.
Sometimes they realize they are in trouble before you do. All they really want is for you to notice and talk to them. Sometimes, it's that straight forward.
As I said before, if you want to help, get them help. If all you want to do is punish them and ruin their lives, well, I wouldn't think you were much of a parent, but that's just my opinion.
I'd hope you would visit the local juvenile detention facility, jail, and the local prison first to see just what you are going to be putting your child into. I have. I know what waits there, and I wouldn't subject a dog to that, or the aftermath.
Also remember, punishment without counseling, is only negative. They will learn nothing other than to never trust you or talk to you about anything important, and they can get drugs in detention. That's not a win for anyone.
You have kids who are doing drugs and hiding it...and you think the drug sniffing dog is what created a level of distrust?
No, what created the level of distrust was the War on Drugs. Making something illegal makes people hide the activity. If it were legal, but regulated, more addicts would seek treatment.
What created the level of distrust was a fear by your child that they can not talk to you without judgement and punishment.
Take away the fear and you would get a different result.
Time is critical. Once they are past age 18 there is less you can do.
It depends on the state - sometimes the age of consent for treatment is younger than 18 - I've worked in states where it is as young as 12. But I agree with your sentiment about getting help for a child of any age who is addicted.
Unfortunately, sometimes parents have to go to extreme measures in order to get their point across. If someone is going to hire a dog handler, to sniff out drugs, like another poster said, there's already a HUGE problem with trust. How is this any different than the random searches at school, with drug dogs?
Because it's your home and not a public place.
BTW this is in FL. FL is a VERY STRANGE state when it comes to laws.
For example you can run a red light, hit another driver, kill them, and you get a ticket. Unless drugs or alcohol are involved. But being reckless only gets you a ticket. Same thing if a car hits and kills a motorcyclist, they get a ticket and that's it.(They're trying to change this).
A toddler wanders off and drowns in a pool, no charges, UNLESS there are drugs in the house. Which is understandable, but negligence occurs without drugs.
That's why the Casey Anthony saying her daugther drowned in the pool never made any sense, any FL resident knows it is an all too frequent event and there are never any charges brought up.
But if your kid has a bag of pot they're going to become a felon in FL.
Shoplifting is also a felony in FL.
But killing someone with your car when you're at fault only gets you a ticket.
Somehow killing someone in your car due to your negligence or letting a child who is not being properly watched drown is worse than bag a marijuana.
I'm going to do a little research but I belive if this company is brought into your home and finds drugs, you don't have an option in regards to police involvement.
To me that is extreme to ruin a 17yr olds life over that.
I would go through other avenues before doing this.
And you have to consider the laws in your state and what the long term ramfications are before doing this.
I saw something on the news tonight that I found disturbing.
The story featured a company that brings out a German Shepard that will go through your home and your cars if you suspect your child is using drugs and has drugs in the house.
It didn't say what happens if drugs our found. Are the police called?
Or if no drugs are found I would think you have really damaged your relationship with your child.
Seemed very extreme to me.
Given that YOU not your child, are responsible for whatever is in YOUR house....
We are very lucky. Dss was using/selling drugs. When our house got broken into, a policeman just snarled at us "This is what happens when you have a known drug dealer living in your house". We were idiots. We had no idea he was selling. We figured he was using. Had they found anything, we would have been the ones with the explaining to do. So, yes, I'd rent a drug sniffing dog. I'd just do it when my child wasn't home.
Given that YOU not your child, are responsible for whatever is in YOUR house....
We are very lucky. Dss was using/selling drugs. When our house got broken into, a policeman just snarled at us "This is what happens when you have a known drug dealer living in your house". We were idiots. We had no idea he was selling. We figured he was using. Had they found anything, we would have been the ones with the explaining to do. So, yes, I'd rent a drug sniffing dog. I'd just do it when my child wasn't home.
If you knew he had drugs in the house why would you need a drug sniffing dog?
If your child can't stop, because he/she has an addictive personality, or is addicted to something other than cannabis, which is not physically addicting, then you get them counseling, in-patient counseling if needed, but you don't give up and call the cops unless they are violent to themselves or others. Time is critical. Once they are past age 18 there is less you can do.
Treatment, if it's needed, and it's really only needed for the addicted, not the casual user. The casual user can stop by themselves if they want to, the addicted need help. Sometimes the help they get doesn't "stick". This is typical, as any counselor worth anything will tell you. You have to try again and maybe again. Children are not disposable.
Sometimes they realize they are in trouble before you do. All they really want is for you to notice and talk to them. Sometimes, it's that straight forward.
As I said before, if you want to help, get them help. If all you want to do is punish them and ruin their lives, well, I wouldn't think you were much of a parent, but that's just my opinion.
I'd hope you would visit the local juvenile detention facility, jail, and the local prison first to see just what you are going to be putting your child into. I have. I know what waits there, and I wouldn't subject a dog to that, or the aftermath.
Also remember, punishment without counseling, is only negative. They will learn nothing other than to never trust you or talk to you about anything important, and they can get drugs in detention. That's not a win for anyone.
"but you don't give up and call the cops unless they are violent to themselves or others" I vehemently disagree and restate something here "unless they are doing HARM to themselves or others"
" I know what waits there, and I wouldn't subject a dog to that, or the aftermath. " Again, a point I will argue. I DID call local law enforcement and have a teenager removed from my home and yes, he DID spend the night in the "local" juvenile detention facility. He is now close to 30 years old and has NEVER been in trouble with the law again!
I happen to have 4 children, 3 of them in their 20s now. Eventually calling the law on your child may be necessary and for cryin' out loud, it someone finally calls the law on their child, it doesn't mean that they've given up on them. It can mean that they HAVEN'T given up on that child, but rather that they have exhausted all other avenues! When I called the law on my eldest (NO not to bring in a drug sniffing dog), it was a last resort. It snapped him back to the real world though. It didn't FIX him, but it did provide a much needed wake up call.
Apparently, he sees things differently than you do, because he actually understands why I did it and thanks me for giving a sh*t, caring enough to call in "reinforcements". The law enforcement in our town never considered him a "bad kid", just one who needed a wake up call. Our local law enforcement guys were teenage boys, too. They appreciated seeing a family who was willing to go "all out" in order to try to save a teenager from himself. They see far too many parents who DO give up and don't call in those reinforcements. Those are the kids whom they see repeatedly, right on into adulthood.
Parents who give up say, "I'm done with you. If you want to destroy your life, fine.....do it. I can't stop you." Parents who don't give up say, "I'm going to do everything in my power to save you. You might not appreciate me right now. You might be mad at me right now, but someday, I believe you'll understand why I'm doing this."
BTW this is in FL. FL is a VERY STRANGE state when it comes to laws.
For example you can run a red light, hit another driver, kill them, and you get a ticket. Unless drugs or alcohol are involved. But being reckless only gets you a ticket. Same thing if a car hits and kills a motorcyclist, they get a ticket and that's it.(They're trying to change this).
A toddler wanders off and drowns in a pool, no charges, UNLESS there are drugs in the house. Which is understandable, but negligence occurs without drugs.
That's why the Casey Anthony saying her daugther drowned in the pool never made any sense, any FL resident knows it is an all too frequent event and there are never any charges brought up.
But if your kid has a bag of pot they're going to become a felon in FL.
Shoplifting is also a felony in FL.
But killing someone with your car when you're at fault only gets you a ticket.
Somehow killing someone in your car due to your negligence or letting a child who is not being properly watched drown is worse than bag a marijuana.
I'm going to do a little research but I belive if this company is brought into your home and finds drugs, you don't have an option in regards to police involvement.
To me that is extreme to ruin a 17yr olds life over that.
I would go through other avenues before doing this.
And you have to consider the laws in your state and what the long term ramfications are before doing this.
I would hope that anyone who chooses to use this service..would do some research on what happens if they find drugs. The thing of it is, it IS your home and IF you felt the need to do this, rather than searching the house on your own, it's your business. Also, it does NOT automatically mean that you're ruining your child's life. You could be SAVING your child's life.
I learned a long time ago not to judge other parents. You do NOT know what goes on in their homes, nor do you know their children like they do. Children quite often have very different perspectives than their parents and BOTH the parent and the child can see themselves as the victim. It all depends on which side of the "offense" they're on.
To me that is extreme to ruin a 17yr olds life over that.
I would go through other avenues before doing this.
I've known parents who had 17-year old dope addicts in the family. I've also known 17-year old dope addicts.
By the time the parent is bringing in the dogs the kid's life is already ruined.
The parents I've known didn't catch it early. Or turned their heads because they didn't want to deal with it. The result was a child with a serious habit and I've NEVER seen that turn out well. (Unless the 17-year old was in a re-hab program and working hard on his sobriety. And most 17-year old's can't understand the concept of working a program.)
"but you don't give up and call the cops unless they are violent to themselves or others" I vehemently disagree and restate something here "unless they are doing HARM to themselves or others"
" I know what waits there, and I wouldn't subject a dog to that, or the aftermath. " Again, a point I will argue. I DID call local law enforcement and have a teenager removed from my home and yes, he DID spend the night in the "local" juvenile detention facility. He is now close to 30 years old and has NEVER been in trouble with the law again!
I happen to have 4 children, 3 of them in their 20s now. Eventually calling the law on your child may be necessary and for cryin' out loud, it someone finally calls the law on their child, it doesn't mean that they've given up on them. It can mean that they HAVEN'T given up on that child, but rather that they have exhausted all other avenues! When I called the law on my eldest (NO not to bring in a drug sniffing dog), it was a last resort. It snapped him back to the real world though. It didn't FIX him, but it did provide a much needed wake up call.
Apparently, he sees things differently than you do, because he actually understands why I did it and thanks me for giving a sh*t, caring enough to call in "reinforcements". The law enforcement in our town never considered him a "bad kid", just one who needed a wake up call. Our local law enforcement guys were teenage boys, too. They appreciated seeing a family who was willing to go "all out" in order to try to save a teenager from himself. They see far too many parents who DO give up and don't call in those reinforcements. Those are the kids whom they see repeatedly, right on into adulthood.
Parents who give up say, "I'm done with you. If you want to destroy your life, fine.....do it. I can't stop you." Parents who don't give up say, "I'm going to do everything in my power to save you. You might not appreciate me right now. You might be mad at me right now, but someday, I believe you'll understand why I'm doing this."
Violence is pretty easy to understand as a threshold. "Harm" could mean anything. I think a minor doing any drug, legal or illegal is doing "harm" to at least themselves.
I think you are right in the sense that the police should be the last resort, so we agree on that. Our thresholds are different. However, I do think you are giving up on them in the sense that you are giving up your rights and turning them over to the state. Once they are under state control anything can happen.
I'd want to exhaust multiple trys at counseling and rehab before getting anywhere near law enforcement, because as I said, there is no cure there. As any therapist will tell you the most important thing for recovery is a loving and supportive family, (not a cop in riot gear).
You son spent ONE night in detention. He was scared straight by what he saw, which was, I can tell you very very scary. I'm glad it worked for him and that he didn't end up with a permanet record that would have "harmed" him for the rest of his life. That is why it is so important for parents to do what you did and check out the laws in your area.
In some states possession can get you a fine, in another state the same circumstances will get you a felony and an extremely long prison sentence. Oklahoma is one of the strictest states in the Union (hasn't curbed usage, but that's another thread).
To those that think that you are saving your child by incarcerating them, you are wrong, in my view. You are either turning them into a career criminal, pushing them into the harder drugs they will find in detention, or maybe killing them. Both adults and children die under the "care" of the state.
If they are using cannabis, the substance of choice of most minors, they are not going to die. Other drugs, different story, they could die, or not. Many people function in society, although they are cocaine users. It can be toxic, but it usually isn't for moderate users. That isn't a position point, just the truth (as I see it).
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No
(They're trying to change this).
