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Teddy Roosevelt was a child of privilege who proved to be a traitor to his class. (Which was a good thing, in this case.) He was also one of the first American politicians to use the word "progressive" to describe himself, along with Wisconsin Gov. Robert La Follette (a social democrat).
But don't forget this: the reason you don't see much reverence for Eisenhower now, is because Goldwater took on Rockefeller and defeated him for the GOP nomination before losing to LBJ in a historic landslide. That was the first blow struck against the GOP's liberal wing, and the people who backed him — the "movement conservatives" — finally completed their campaign of capturing the party with Ronald Reagan's election.
Watergate overshadowed everything else Nixon did save the opening to the People's Republic of China. But even though he also acted on his own racist sentiments at times, Nixon today would count as a liberal Republican.
And even the Pennsylvania GOP has become less centrist. Compare Tom Corbett to Tom Ridge, for instance. Do you think the Scrantons would have countenanced someone like Darryl Metcalfe?
Meanwhile, the state remains pretty centrist: remember, Corbett was the first sitting Governor to fail to win a second term since they were allowed to succeed themselves in 1970. Wolf, at least for now, has restored the pattern. Whether it continues depends on whether the Republicans can field a candidate at least a third of the state's Democrats can support — and then hold on to those Democrats.
(Speaking of Bob Dole: He and longtime GOP Senator from Pennsylvania Arlen Specter grew up in the same small town in Kansas. Specter's party switch in an unsuccessful effort to keep his seat was as much a commentary on the change in the Pennsylvania GOP as it was on him, even though he was considered an opportunist by many.)
It just struck me: it seems to me that this conversation has been dominated by voices from the Southeast. I wonder whether there's anyone here who lives in the Land of the Forgotten in the Southwest? Are those Democrats-turned-Republicans-four-years-ago sticking by the guy they voted for in 2016, or are at least some of them experiencing buyer's remorse?
Teddy Roosevelt was a child of privilege who proved to be a traitor to his class. (Which was a good thing, in this case.) He was also one of the first American politicians to use the word "progressive" to describe himself, along with Wisconsin Gov. Robert La Follette (a social democrat).
But don't forget this: the reason you don't see much reverence for Eisenhower now, is because Goldwater took on Rockefeller and defeated him for the GOP nomination before losing to LBJ in a historic landslide. That was the first blow struck against the GOP's liberal wing, and the people who backed him — the "movement conservatives" — finally completed their campaign of capturing the party with Ronald Reagan's election.
Watergate overshadowed everything else Nixon did save the opening to the People's Republic of China. But even though he also acted on his own racist sentiments at times, Nixon today would count as a liberal Republican.
And even the Pennsylvania GOP has become less centrist. Compare Tom Corbett to Tom Ridge, for instance. Do you think the Scrantons would have countenanced someone like Darryl Metcalfe?
Meanwhile, the state remains pretty centrist: remember, Corbett was the first sitting Governor to fail to win a second term since they were allowed to succeed themselves in 1970. Wolf, at least for now, has restored the pattern. Whether it continues depends on whether the Republicans can field a candidate at least a third of the state's Democrats can support — and then hold on to those Democrats.
(Speaking of Bob Dole: He and longtime GOP Senator from Pennsylvania Arlen Specter grew up in the same small town in Kansas. Specter's party switch in an unsuccessful effort to keep his seat was as much a commentary on the change in the Pennsylvania GOP as it was on him, even though he was considered an opportunist by many.)
It just struck me: it seems to me that this conversation has been dominated by voices from the Southeast. I wonder whether there's anyone here who lives in the Land of the Forgotten in the Southwest? Are those Democrats-turned-Republicans-four-years-ago sticking by the guy they voted for in 2016, or are at least some of them experiencing buyer's remorse?
I used an illegal emoji so I will try this again. I was really hoping for a response from the person who started the thread who loves Trump and thinks Reagan is the best president ever.
Great summation but I knew most of this already.
I have been to the house TR grew up in in NYC and Sagamore Hill.
It just struck me: it seems to me that this conversation has been dominated by voices from the Southeast. I wonder whether there's anyone here who lives in the Land of the Forgotten in the Southwest? Are those Democrats-turned-Republicans-four-years-ago sticking by the guy they voted for in 2016, or are at least some of them experiencing buyer's remorse?
I've originally from the eastern half of the state but I've been in Pittsburgh for twenty years.
Speaking from experience, the George W. Bush / Trump type of voter never expresses buyer's remorse. They just opt out of politics altogether and don't talk about it until the next demagogue shows up to vote for.
I've originally from the eastern half of the state but I've been in Pittsburgh for twenty years.
Speaking from experience, the George W. Bush / Trump type of voter never expresses buyer's remorse. They just opt out of politics altogether and don't talk about it until the next demagogue shows up to vote for.
This is a rather cogent commentary, but as it's often my wont to pick nits, you left one for me to pick:
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Originally Posted by wanderer34
It's a possibility that Trump may lose PA this year, but then again will Biden win PA is the bigger question? As much as Trump's rhetoric has seemingly divided the country, I just can't see Biden winning the presidency. He's too incompetent and not energetic enough to make people race to the polls. Sanders, who's slightly older than Biden had way more followers than Biden and that says a lot!!! However, with current trends of State Senator Yudichak shifting his political affiliation from D to Independent and caucusing with the State Republicans and the current mayor of Scranton being an Independent, I just don't see how Biden can have a successful general election in PA.
Keep in mind that all of the Democratic primaries up to the South Carolina one were notable for their lack of members of the group that now is the Democrats' most reliable voting bloc: African-Americans.
Once the race entered a state where they were a force to be reckoned with, Biden won handily.
Democrats won't win if African-Americans stay home. Relative to their performance in Pennsylvania in Obama's two elections, they were noticeably less enthusiastic for Hillary Clinton in 2016. Had they voted for her in the same numbers they voted for Obama, Clinton would have carried the state. The rest of the Democrats picked up the signal Black voters sent in South Carolina, which is why even Bernie fell in line even if he didn't completely end his campaign.
I do know that there was a generation gap among Black voters: younger ones broke for Sanders, and the younger Black voters I know who have weighed in on this thread did same. But most of us older voters have forgiven Biden his past slights and offenses, and his service as Obama's Vice President cemented his current reputation as a friend of ours.
And besides, while Sanders did have the largest share of the vote in those early primaries, I will point this out once again:
When those Democrats were presented with a choice between Bernie Sanders and Someone Else, 75 percent of them chose Someone Else.
Quote:
The coronavirus is a worldwide epidemic not a domestic one and while I do feel that Trump hasn't said the right things (George Floyd and the infamous wall on Colorado speech) nor toned down his rhetoric, the media hasn't done any better. With the exception of Fox News, the rest of the MSM has made Trump to be the equal of Hitler, and even I don't think I would've gone too far in doing that, but comparing a businessman and a president to one of the worst dictators in modern day history is ridiculous and the MSM deserves every loss in ratings.
I'm not sure they have gone that far, but our current President continues to show an inexplicable fondness for Vladimir Putin, who's busy trying to wreck this election the way he nearly did the last one — and Trump is not only doing nothing to keep that from happening but also sowing FUD himself while voting by the very means he denounces as fraud-prone.
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It's your discretion on whether you want to vote for Biden or not. Frankly, I don't believe American citizens should be forced to vote for a candidate of any political level simple because he or she's a D or a R, the point of the matter is that your policies must align to my beliefs and if yours don't, then I don't see why I should waste my time in rain, sleet, of snow just to cast a vote for you just because you have the same political affiliation as mine. That's the problem that's been plaguing the Democrat's for so long and now that Trump had the strongest economy, the strongest stock markets, and the lowest unemployment levels, all the Dems came hope for is that Trump messes up big time (the coronavirus doesn't count). I don't believe the polls the MSM has reported because remember those same polls reported that Hilary was going to beat Trump in 2016 until the last day prior to Election Day 2016, and when Americans went to the polls, Trump won the electoral college, making him president.
The polls called the national popular vote accurately: Clinton did beat Trump on that score. But it's the Electoral College that counts, and when the country is deeply divided and partisan polarization runs high, that's when you get Presidents who lose the popular vote but win the Electoral College. (George W. Bush did the same in 2000.)
I agree with your statement about not having to vote for any particular candidate, but surely you've seen your share of "vote blue no matter who" statements issuing from not just older Democrats. The fact is, most Democrats who will turn out in November are doing so not so much to put Joe Biden in office but to eject Donald Trump from it.
The hitch is, since Trump's base is as fanatically welded to him as the Democrats are fanatically opposed to him, neither side can win just on their bases alone — they must garner votes from outside it. For the Democrats, one of the most promising sources of those votes are the Republican NeverTrumpers like the people behind The Lincoln Project, who are producing devastating TV ads mocking Trump's competence, or the editors of The Bulwark, who represent the side of conservatism that has no truck with racism and are busy trying to save the conservative movement from itself. Rightly or wrongly, many Democrats, including me, believe that this crowd would never be able to swallow hard enough to vote for Bernie Sanders, even if, as I also believe, he actually could have fought Trump on his own turf with his own rhetoric. They are willing to swallow hard and vote for Biden, and several of them have already said as much.
I at least welcome their support. Biden is a placeholder; he's keeping the Presidency warm for a younger Democrat who will follow him, which is why everyone is keen to know who he will choose as Vice President. But a placeholder may be just what we need: It would give everyone else time to cool down, take a deep breath, and consider what really matters as far as the survival of the Republic is concerned. (And we can't dismiss the possibility that the Republic could come apart if Trump loses and claims fraud — and if the Russians succeed at hacking our electoral systems just enough for a good chunk of the country to buy his claim.)
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Nowadays, you have many Democrat activists wanting to abolish the electoral college and going by a general voting system so if that's the case, then I suppose the five largest states (CA,TX, FL, NY, & PA) will get the most attention, leaving sparsely populated states like ME, NH, DE, RI, ND, SD, and MT with no visits from the president or any political candidates because it's a less populated state. I don't see the electoral college getting abolished and if the Dems can't play the game, then I see the current Democratic Party getting phased out like the old Whig party of the 1800's.
Maybe the Senate needs reforming, but as a native of an interior state, I'm reluctant to dispense with the Electoral College too, for doing away with it means the coastal cities elect the President every time. What was that phrase — "the tyranny of the majority"? That's also a very real possibility.
I've filed your comments about the Wyoming Valley for future reference.
But I also need to chide you about that "the coronavirus doesn't count" statement. It was precisely his performance on the coronavirus along with the sudden slamming of the brakes on the economy that totally undercut the platform Trump hoped to run on, and in those daily news conferences, he gave more people each day reason to question his competence who hadn't done so before.
He now plans to resume the conferences. He needs to do this, but I'm popping popcorn in order to enjoy the show. I don't expect him to have learned anything from the first round, though his about-face on masks shows that I may be underestimating him there. That aside, however, he seems to be displaying all the character traits he has displayed for the first 3.5 years, the ones that his niece Mary dissects in her new book, and I don't expect him to be able to suppress them.
I used an illegal emoji so I will try this again. I was really hoping for a response from the person who started the thread who loves Trump and thinks Reagan is the best president ever.
Great summation but I knew most of this already.
I have been to the house TR grew up in in NYC and Sagamore Hill.
Hey, which post are you looking for me to respond too? Did I miss something?
I don't believe for one minute that it was a joke.
I don't believe he said it was a joke then, when he said it.
Yet somehow it was a joke AFTER he got flack for it, and once again people thought he was an callous, idiot.
So why didn't he say it was a joke right after he said it? Because he didn't think people would take it seriously? 1) All the time people who make jokes on others, say right then afterward, "I was only kidding." They do NOT let the joke go on. and 2) He thought that during a pandemic was the time to joke about taking bleach to disinfect the body from the inside? Really. You really expect people to believe that?
Why are some Republicans -- even DT, NOW saying wear a mask? Oh because even more Republicans are starting to think he really IS not up to leading this country in times of crisis? AND of course because they see his poll numbers -- AND theirs...and are starting to think...this person may cost me MY seat. So NOW Govs in TX, FL, AZ are s t a r t i n g to change their tune. Too late!
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