Coyotes Announce Plans for New Arena (Phoenix, Mesa: incomes, transportation, stadiums)

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Why can't it be in downtown Phoenix, or in the heart of Scottsdale, or Tempe? Main reason I'm against building it on the SRR is the fact that it's tribal land, and it is essentially the fringes. Also, the infrastructure is seriously lacking there compared to somewhere like downtown. The only way to commute would be driving. There is limited bus service, no light rail, very few eateries, and really nothing else to do around there. We don't need to be pushing everything out to unincorporated territory and be under tribal control. That makes no sense!

My ideal pick would actually be over by Riverview in northwest Mesa, and that location was in fact considered, but taxpayers are unwilling to fund it, so that rules it and all of your picks out, so a location over by the Phoenix Rising FC stadium would be a compromise for a central location on tribal land.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

West gate is, to this day, a monument to a bad idea and a colossal failure that we’re all reminded about constantly

Hockey is different than baseball, football, and basketball. With hockey, 80% of the revenue is generated locally. If you look at the least engaging fan base, often (not always) the teams are from the south. PHX Coyotes, Florida Panthers, Dallas Stars, and Nashville Predators all are struggling financially and have a poor fanbase.

Therefore it was a high risk for Glendale to pony up $$'s for hockey to come to AZ. Furthermore, a fraction of the players are actually from the USA. For instance, for the Coyotes, 9 out of 25 players are from the USA. Of course, zero players are from AZ. Three of the Coyote players are from MN.
https://www.nhl.com/coyotes/roster So what makes them ""Phoenix"? The owner isn't from AZ, the players are mostly foreigners. There is a super weak hockey culture. So it seems the bet was that transplants are going to care??? If you go to any games, you see more competing /visiting jerseys than Coyote jerseys.

With the MN wild, 7 of the players on the Wild roster came from MN. So there is a connection. There are some town associations in MN that have have 5 traveling BOYS peewee teams (age 11 and 12) inside of one town. Wayzata, MN comes to mind. Pretty much every mid-sized town of around 30,000 people in MN has a large hockey association of 50-70 boys players per age group. I'm not including the ever more popular girls hockey. Most of these towns have 1-3 indoor rinks (per town).

Simply put, you can park that arena anywhere you want to and it probably will sink in Arizona. Whoever voted for that Glendale deal wasn't risk adverse and was stupid business person.

Westgate is still bleeding. But a lot less. Around $4M loss in 2017 which has a long way to go. A lot less than the $22M in 2011. I will say they have been a lot busier than in 2011. Often, the parking lot is full (I cannot speak for the summers; only the winter months). They have been busy filling up the area with all kinds of events https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ale/574681001/

When I find myself in that area of town, I often go to restaurants several blocks from Westgate proper. Considering the PHX metro is growing at 2% a year, there will be a day where Westgate finally makes money. But it will always go down as a bad decision for the city of Glendale to pony up that much money and risk.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by DetroitN8V

But, but, but, we’re not in BFE, we have Westgate nearby!

If I didn't have family and friends around me, I suppose I too would be more critical of the caliber of entertainment. People with a spouse and kids don't have the time to head off to bars and other entertainment areas very often. To me at least, hanging out in (nicer) bars sounds pretty unfulfilling. To each their own.

Glendale has a quarter of a million people. By definition, it couldn't be BFE. Party on!

[Bates419]

The "local" aspect of players in the NHL is irrelevant, nowhere do fans show up to watch the local guys, they show up to watch hockey where it's popular and winning team where it's not. You were also way off on revenue, Dallas and Nashville do quite fine.

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Hockey is different than baseball, football, and basketball. With hockey, 80% of the revenue is generated locally. If you look at the least engaging fan base, often (not always) the teams are from the south. PHX Coyotes, Florida Panthers, Dallas Stars, and Nashville Predators all are struggling financially and have a poor fanbase.

Therefore it was a high risk for Glendale to pony up $$'s for hockey to come to AZ. Furthermore, a fraction of the players are actually from the USA. For instance, for the Coyotes, 9 out of 25 players are from the USA. Of course, zero players are from AZ. Three of the Coyote players are from MN.
https://www.nhl.com/coyotes/roster So what makes them ""Phoenix"? The owner isn't from AZ, the players are mostly foreigners. There is a super weak hockey culture. So it seems the bet was that transplants are going to care??? If you go to any games, you see more competing /visiting jerseys than Coyote jerseys.

With the MN wild, 7 of the players on the Wild roster came from MN. So there is a connection. There are some town associations in MN that have have 5 traveling BOYS peewee teams (age 11 and 12) inside of one town. Wayzata, MN comes to mind. Pretty much every mid-sized town of around 30,000 people in MN has a large hockey association of 50-70 boys players per age group. I'm not including the ever more popular girls hockey. Most of these towns have 1-3 indoor rinks (per town).

Simply put, you can park that arena anywhere you want to and it probably will sink in Arizona. Whoever voted for that Glendale deal wasn't risk adverse and was stupid business person.

Westgate is still bleeding. But a lot less. Around $4M loss in 2017 which has a long way to go. A lot less than the $22M in 2011. I will say they have been a lot busier than in 2011. Often, the parking lot is full (I cannot speak for the summers; only the winter months). They have been busy filling up the area with all kinds of events https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ale/574681001/

When I find myself in that area of town, I often go to restaurants several blocks from Westgate proper. Considering the PHX metro is growing at 2% a year, there will be a day where Westgate finally makes money. But it will always go down as a bad decision for the city of Glendale to pony up that much money and risk.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Hockey is different than baseball, football, and basketball. With hockey, 80% of the revenue is generated locally. If you look at the least engaging fan base, often (not always) the teams are from the south. PHX Coyotes, Florida Panthers, Dallas Stars, and Nashville Predators all are struggling financially and have a poor fanbase.

Therefore it was a high risk for Glendale to pony up $$'s for hockey to come to AZ. Furthermore, a fraction of the players are actually from the USA. For instance, for the Coyotes, 9 out of 25 players are from the USA. Of course, zero players are from AZ. Three of the Coyote players are from MN.
https://www.nhl.com/coyotes/roster So what makes them ""Phoenix"? The owner isn't from AZ, the players are mostly foreigners. There is a super weak hockey culture. So it seems the bet was that transplants are going to care??? If you go to any games, you see more competing /visiting jerseys than Coyote jerseys.

With the MN wild, 7 of the players on the Wild roster came from MN. So there is a connection. There are some town associations in MN that have have 5 traveling BOYS peewee teams (age 11 and 12) inside of one town. Wayzata, MN comes to mind. Pretty much every mid-sized town of around 30,000 people in MN has a large hockey association of 50-70 boys players per age group. I'm not including the ever more popular girls hockey. Most of these towns have 1-3 indoor rinks (per town).

Simply put, you can park that arena anywhere you want to and it probably will sink in Arizona. Whoever voted for that Glendale deal wasn't risk adverse and was stupid business person.

Westgate is still bleeding. But a lot less. Around $4M loss in 2017 which has a long way to go. A lot less than the $22M in 2011. I will say they have been a lot busier than in 2011. Often, the parking lot is full (I cannot speak for the summers; only the winter months). They have been busy filling up the area with all kinds of events https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ale/574681001/

When I find myself in that area of town, I often go to restaurants several blocks from Westgate proper. Considering the PHX metro is growing at 2% a year, there will be a day where Westgate finally makes money. But it will always go down as a bad decision for the city of Glendale to pony up that much money and risk.

Westgate was sold to Bob Parsons and partners (godaddy.com) a few months ago. They have pretty ambitious development plans. The area obviously is going to be a focal point of entertainment/living/shopping/business as the west valley continues to grow (faster than the east BTW). Maybe no hockey though. Tragic.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Westgate was sold to Bob Parsons and partners (godaddy.com) a few months ago. They have pretty ambitious development plans. The area obviously is going to be a focal point of entertainment/living/shopping/business as the west valley continues to grow (faster than the east BTW). Maybe no hockey though. Tragic.

Growth=leap frog sprawl and chain stores filling strip malls. I’d take less over more, but honestly I’d prefer more urban growth.

[Bates419]

There is a slight irony to a guy from Minnesota writing about how teams are supported and such. And in the same post talking about Dallas. And in regards to players selling tickets I would suggest that AZ's best player will do that much more than all of present Minnesota players combined, quality over quantity. I believe a couple years ago the same poster questioned the quality of Matthews as well?

[RJ312]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

West gate is, to this day, a monument to a bad idea and a colossal failure that we’re all reminded about constantly

I agree completely. There should never have been an NHL team in Phoenix. Phoenix is a not a hockey market. The NHL put too many teams in Sun Belt markets. Houston is the only major Sun Belt city with smart businessmen who didn't bring an NHL team to that market.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

If I didn't have family and friends around me, I suppose I too would be more critical of the caliber of entertainment. People with a spouse and kids don't have the time to head off to bars and other entertainment areas very often. To me at least, hanging out in (nicer) bars sounds pretty unfulfilling. To each their own.

Glendale has a quarter of a million people. By definition, it couldn't be BFE. Party on!

Who said anything about bars and partying? Just because you may not like leaving your home doesn't mean that many don't enjoy going out to great restaurants and entertainment WITH friends and family. Westgate is simply a failure and isn't exactly a selling point for the area, regardless of your appetite for bars and partying, which is irrelevant anyway.

[Bates419]

You might want to do a little reading, Houston is presently looking at getting an NHL team.
It might even be the Coyotes.

Originally Posted by RJ312

I agree completely. There should never have been an NHL team in Phoenix. Phoenix is a not a hockey market. The NHL put too many teams in Sun Belt markets. Houston is the only major Sun Belt city with smart businessmen who didn't bring an NHL team to that market.