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Why do you insist with this private property crap argument? You're way off base. That's the point. Smoke in your car, house, even business, depending on what that is.
That's your retort? That's not an argument. My business is my business. I own it. You have no right to tell me what services to offer, as long as they don't include murdering people or something else illegal.
By the way, just because you don't get the argument, doesn't mean it's off base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYer75
Just because you don't get the analogy, doesn't mean it's horrible.
No, they're horrible analogies. I really shouldn't have to explain to you why.
First analogy: I have one word for you, negligence.
Second analogy: This is not comparable to smoking in a room. This is comparable to installing huge ovens that burn thousands of cigarettes and blow the smoke sideways, directly onto people's houses. A direct violation of their property rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy
Smoking is a disgusting habit that infringes on my rights to not want to smell it. So if smokers are finding it difficult to continue their habits then they can A) stay home and smoke up like a choo choo train or B) deal with the changes and refrain from smoking in public places where it is intrusive and a nuisance to others.
If you were talking about banning smoking in public, at least that would be a somewhat principled stance to take, but you're not. You're talking about banning smoking in establishments even in the case that both the owner and visitor don't have a problem with it.
You don't have the right to be accommodated perfectly to your needs on someone else's property. You're paying for the hotel room, so obviously that hotel room nor any of your preferences for its characteristics are a right, period. Sounds like you don't know what rights even are.
That's your retort? That's not an argument. My business is my business. I own it. You have no right to tell me what services to offer, as long as they don't include murdering people or something else illegal.
By the way, just because you don't get the argument, doesn't mean it's off base.
No, they're horrible analogies. I really shouldn't have to explain to you why.
First analogy: I have one word for you, negligence.
Second analogy: This is not comparable to smoking in a room. This is comparable to installing huge ovens that burn thousands of cigarettes and blow the smoke sideways, directly onto people's houses. A direct violation of their property rights.
If you were talking about banning smoking in public, at least that would be a somewhat principled stance to take, but you're not. You're talking about banning smoking in establishments even in the case that both the owner and visitor don't have a problem with it.
You don't have the right to be accommodated perfectly to your needs on someone else's property. You're paying for the hotel room, so obviously that hotel room nor any of your preferences for its characteristics are a right, period. Sounds like you don't know what rights even are.
Right, and exposing people to toxins from your second smoke is negligent. At least you have the benefit of the filter.
Second, I was speaking of rights in general, since she doesn't know where the line begans and ends. Not specific to the hotel room subject at hand.
If you own a business, you are subject to a different set of laws. You should know this. In addition, the customers using your services provided by your business have consumer rigths, including but not limited to the right to safety: protection from hazardous goods. A room with smoke toxins is a hazard to one's health.
Right, and exposing people to toxins from your second smoke is negligent. At least you have the benefit of the filter.
I'm not exposing you to anything you don't choose to be exposed to by staying in a smoking hotel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYer75
Second, I was speaking of rights in general, since she doesn't know where the line begans and ends. Not specific to the hotel room subject at hand.
Is a hotel room a right? If a hotel room is not a right, how can any characteristic of a hotel room be a right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYer75
If you own a business, you are subject to a different set of laws. You should know this. In addition, the customers using your services provided by your business have consumer rigths, including but not limited to Generally accepted basic consumer rights are: right to safety: protection from hazardous goods. A room with smoke toxins is a hazard to one's health.
You know what else is hazardous? Saturated fat. I could go on for a page with this. My business, my choice. Your money, your choice.
I'm not exposing you to anything you don't choose to be exposed to by staying in a smoking hotel.
Is a hotel room a right? If a hotel room is not a right, how can any characteristic of a hotel room be a right?
You know what else is hazardous? Saturated fat. I could go on for a page with this. My business, my choice. Your money, your choice.
We'll leave it there. You have your opinion, I have mine. I respect yours. We both made our points. I'm not changing mine, and you're not changing yours! It was fun
Smoking is a disgusting habit that infringes on my rights to not want to smell it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYer75
Sure you do. As longs as it doesn't affect others negatively.
So again I will bring up my perfume analogy, since nobody has addressed that one. Wearing perfume/cologne is (in my opinion) a nasty habit, which infringes upon my rights to not want to smell it - and my rights to not have a severe allergy attack, followed by a migraine. When I'm at work I serve the public, in a job supported by taxes, and I cannot escape a customer who's wearing perfume. Do I have the right to demand non-perfume libraries, hotels and restaurants? Or do my rights not trump their right to wear perfume?
FWIW I support most non-smoking laws, which are quite extensive in this state. I am also very considerate, even when smoking outside AND in my own home... if a non-smoker is visiting my home, I'll keep it outside & far from the door, just to keep them comfortable. I also wouldn't seek to ban perfume, since I don't think my allergies should outweigh your right to wear the stuff. Why can't people have this same attitude towards smoking? Keep it out of the shared public spaces, fine, but leave us to our habits in an enclosed smoking-designated hotel room. Is that so tough?
So again I will bring up my perfume analogy, since nobody has addressed that one. Wearing perfume/cologne is (in my opinion) a nasty habit, which infringes upon my rights to not want to smell it - and my rights to not have a severe allergy attack, followed by a migraine. When I'm at work I serve the public, in a job supported by taxes, and I cannot escape a customer who's wearing perfume. Do I have the right to demand non-perfume libraries, hotels and restaurants? Or do my rights not trump their right to wear perfume?
FWIW I support most non-smoking laws, which are quite extensive in this state. I am also very considerate, even when smoking outside AND in my own home... if a non-smoker is visiting my home, I'll keep it outside & far from the door, just to keep them comfortable. I also wouldn't seek to ban perfume, since I don't think my allergies should outweigh your right to wear the stuff. Why can't people have this same attitude towards smoking? Keep it out of the shared public spaces, fine, but leave us to our habits in an enclosed smoking-designated hotel room. Is that so tough?
Driving past the smoking hotel to a nonsmoking one also will not kill them.
No but it will inconvenience them. Therefore, they have to force everyone else to adapt and inconvenience themselves in order to avoid that inconvenience.
...I thank the Lord I had the will power and strength to quit smoking. It was such a nasty and most unhealthy habit I ever could imagine having. I was a slave to it. I paid big tobacco companies to poison my body.
Smoking is a powerful drug. Makes people nuts.
Amen!
Smoking also considerably deadens one's sense of smell. I don't think many smokers even realize the strength of the lingering odor that smoking leaves on their person (or in an enclosed space like a hotel room).
I quit 15 years ago and I was absolutely amazed at how bad a smoker smells right after a cigarette. As soon as they enter a room, anyone with an unimpaired sense of smell knows they've been smoking. I used to think if I popped a mint after a smoke, nobody would be the wiser!
I have a buddy at work that proudly states that he doesn't smoke at home anymore...."because my wife thinks I quit".
He actually believes that...LOL!
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