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Old 04-19-2012, 09:40 AM
 
867 posts, read 498,761 times
Reputation: 169

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Or even less. Lower income people pay ZERO long term capital gains taxes.
Explain this. Are you talking about a zero or negative tax bill due to tax credits (which is a travest in and of itself).
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:47 AM
 
867 posts, read 498,761 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
It is just old fashioned cass warfare.

It's the old, who own assets, vs. the young, who earn wages.

It's the inherited wealth, vs. the built wealth.

It's Wall Street vs. Main Street.

The right wing / GOP agenda is to make sure that wealth stays in the existing hands. "Status quo." That's why they give tax breaks to investment income. That's why they don't see income inequality as a problem. They've created an illogical, elaborate fiscal ideology (trickle down, supply side) in an attempt to legitimize this class warfare.

The lie works fairly well even on an academic level, because most people cannot tell the difference between nominal growth and real growth, and have no concept of the time value of money. They see the monetary base expanding, asset prices rising, and they think that means the economy is growing. They ignore metrics like GINI or real median wages, or median wages / GDP, because those metrics expose the upward wealth redistribution that's occuring.
Where did you get the idea that it is the GOP than wrote this particular provision (Capitol Gains rate)? Oh yah, I know where you got it.

Charmin, anyone??
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:49 AM
 
3,457 posts, read 3,624,868 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatles4evr View Post
Where did you get the idea that it is the GOP than wrote this particular provision (Capitol Gains rate)? Oh yah, I know where you got it.

Charmin, anyone??
No I never said that, exactly.

Right now, Obama wants to increase capital gains rates, and Romney does not. Romney has gone on record in the past, supporting the elimination of capital gains taxes entirely. The GOP presidential candidates primary "job creation strategy" was lowering capital gains rates. Lowering the cap gains rate was a pillar of the GOP's "Bush tax cuts." Lowering capital gains rates is the favored solution by CATO and Heritage.

How could anyone possibly confuse the GOP's stance on cap gains rates? This mentality that "rich people create jobs" is woven into the fabric of their party ideology.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:50 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,756,050 times
Reputation: 9728
I think all tax brackets should be replaced by a single formula that determines the tax progressively corresponding to the exact income, from 0 to 50%.
And all deductions and other tricks should also be removed.
The whole tax code should fit on one letter page without any small print.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,956,603 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Sacrifice.

Start giving up a cup of coffee or a pack of smokes per week.

Put that money aside.

Before you know it, you have a little nest egg.

And don't tell me that even the poorest among us cannot give up ONE vise item ( we all have them) and save.

It's just easier to blame others for ones weakness.

One more thing.....how will raising one persons tax rate increase another ones lifestyle?
That's just preposterous. Nobody ever put a substantial sum away in that manner.

Let's say you bought coffee for $2/day at work. In a year (200 work days) you would save $400. Let's say you invested that in stocks. Stocks have an average return over the 20th century of 6%. In 20 years of doing this, your inflation adjusted capital would be about $9,900. That's hardly a nest egg.
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:03 AM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,473,071 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Sacrifice.

Start giving up a cup of coffee or a pack of smokes per week.

Put that money aside.

Before you know it, you have a little nest egg.

And don't tell me that even the poorest among us cannot give up ONE vise item ( we all have them) and save.

It's just easier to blame others for ones weakness.

One more thing.....how will raising one persons tax rate increase another ones lifestyle?

The problem I've observed among people working for low wages is that their basic cost of living rises faster than their wages.

You can save a little over time by sacrificing and have it all wiped out by a rent increase or by food and energy inflation.
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:09 AM
 
867 posts, read 498,761 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus View Post
No I never said that, exactly.

Right now, Obama wants to increase capital gains rates, and Romney does not. Romney has gone on record in the past, supporting the elimination of capital gains taxes entirely. The GOP presidential candidates primary "job creation strategy" was lowering capital gains rates. Lowering the cap gains rate was a pillar of the GOP's "Bush tax cuts." Lowering capital gains rates is the favored solution by CATO and Heritage.

How could anyone possibly confuse the GOP's stance on cap gains rates? This mentality that "rich people create jobs" is woven into the fabric of their party ideology.
Well, you said it, perhaps inexactly.

However, let me connect the dots for you.

Investment creates jobs (dot #1), Rich people make Investments (dot #2).

(Drawing virtual line between dots 1 and 2 abovd).

Now, does that help.
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,481 posts, read 10,227,792 times
Reputation: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
That's just preposterous. Nobody ever put a substantial sum away in that manner.

Let's say you bought coffee for $2/day at work. In a year (200 work days) you would save $400. Let's say you invested that in stocks. Stocks have an average return over the 20th century of 6%. In 20 years of doing this, your inflation adjusted capital would be about $9,900. That's hardly a nest egg.
Not bad for one cup of coffee a day/ A nest egg no, proof it can be started yes. Now how about saving a carton of cigarettes a week to add to your savings
Nest egg for retirement , no but lets add cutting the smart phone account to a basic phone,
Lets add eating at home not out
Lets add go to second hand clothing stores.
How about not needing the smart TV juts a regular one.
Cut cable bills by cutting out everything but basic packages.
I once went 2 years without eating out no cable no cell phone . So i could put money away.
Just saving simple daily items I have a roth with over 120000
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:14 AM
 
867 posts, read 498,761 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I think all tax brackets should be replaced by a single formula that determines the tax progressively corresponding to the exact income, from 0 to 50%.
And all deductions and other tricks should also be removed.
The whole tax code should fit on one letter page without any small print.
Do you not recognize the fundamental unfairness, inappropriateness, unAmericanism and just plain BS of taking 50% of what people earn, and you would probably apply that rate to all their income, not just the upper parts as is done now.

Have you a fundamental understanding of equal treatment under the law?

How obout this, instead of going bankrupt trying to buy and stuff enough caviar down the throat of the glutten to satiate its gluttony, just put the effing glutten on a diet.
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:22 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,756,050 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatles4evr View Post
Do you not recognize the fundamental unfairness, inappropriateness, unAmericanism and just plain BS of taking 50% of what people earn, and you would probably apply that rate to all their income, not just the upper parts as is done now.

Have you a fundamental understanding of equal treatment under the law?

How obout this, instead of going bankrupt trying to buy and stuff enough caviar down the throat of the glutten to satiate its gluttony, just put the effing glutten on a diet.
Well, I am not sure about the details, I just think the system should be radically simplified and be made much more transparent. The tax code has grown like cancer over time.
There is no equal treatment under current law, either, otherwise someone would have taken the whole thing to the supreme court and won. So your problem seems to be what percentage is fair. That however is a rather subjective question.
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