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Oldhag - I'm writing this to you as a woman, as a wife of a military veteran and retired law enforcement officer, as an American citizen but a Norwegian by birth (and one whose black neighbor in TN once good naturedly referred to as the "whitest woman I know"). Some random thoughts in no particular order:
1. When I was 15 I was walking through a store in a small town in Canada, just killing time. I walked out of the store, took a few steps and heard someone yelling behind me. When I turned around the store owner was pointing his finger at me and demanding to know if I had stolen a newspaper. I hadn't but I spent a couple of unexpected and embarrassing minutes trying to defend myself from an unwarranted accusation.
2. When I was in my early 20s I applied for a job as a fitness instructor at a health club to help pay the bills while I was in college. Two questions on the job application were my height and weight, which I foolishly answered and which I foolishly answered honestly. The male owner looked at my application and then looked up at me, telling me that after seeing my weight he couldn't hire me because he only wanted women "who looked good in leotards", I had been a serious athlete since I was 12 (and by that time had a black belt in karate) - I wasn't fat. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
3. When I was in my early 30s (and a single mother) I spent a brief period of time working as a part-time waitress at a bar on a military base. Let's just say that by 11pm I inevitably had to "watch the hands" because guys started to get grabby by that time in the evening. I was just a woman working a full time job and a part time job, who was trying to raise a couple of little boys.
4. About a year ago (and I'm in my early 50s now) I walked into a small office supply store in a small town close to where I live. I was actually waiting to meet someone for lunch and was killing time while I waited. Someone appeared from behind a temporary wall and I asked her if they sold price tags (the small square cardboard kind with string on them to attach to clothes) - I own a small outdoor gear store. I didn't usually shop in this small town but I thought I would compare prices with where I usually bought them. She pointed me in the right direction and then went back behind the temporary wall where she and another lady were doing.........whatever it was they were doing. They were more expensive, I put the price tag box back on the hook and walked out of the store. As I was headed back to my truck I heard a voice behind me. "You have to pay for those!!". Turning I saw the woman I had spoken to when I first walked in. Both of us standing on the street and I had to calmly explain to her that the tags were not what I wanted and I had put them back on the shelf. Like I would compromise my honesty and integrity for a small package of price tags!! But this small town is also eaten up with drugs and petty crime so I had to take that into account with that interaction.
5. People profile all the time. If you're young and cute, significantly overweight, and old woman sitting in the park feeding the birds, a black kid swaggering down the road with his pants hanging down below his a$$ and holding the crotch of his pants in front to keep them up, the white trailer trash hoe with the greasy hair and the dirty kid and the tramp stamp in the middle of her back, the well dressed urban professional, the hat and jeans uniform of the Wyoming cowboy...................people make instant decisions every day about people based on appearance - age, dress, tattoos, gang signs, weight, even shoe heel height ("f me pumps" etc.). In a busy world it provides immediate context within the frame work of your own experience and we all do it and make instant decisions about a person because of it. That doesn't excuse what happened to your husband just like it doesn't excuse some of my own experiences - it's just part of the world and part of human nature.
6. It's also part of a cops experience. I know my husbands' own experiences as a cop and I admin a pro-law enforcement page. A lot of people on this site (understandably) only hear an occasional story about what its like to be a cop in 2017. But most have NO idea how dangerous the already dangerous job of an officer has become. The political climate for cops has (maybe had.........too soon to tell) become toxic. Cops have been demonized, scrutinized, maligned, targeted and ambushed. Their politicians at the highest level and often times their local city councils and police chiefs/sheriffs have thrown them under the bus. Careers and lives have been ruined for nothing.........simply doing their jobs. They are being ambushed and murdered on the job. Their homes and patrol vehicles (in their personal driveways) are being vandalized. The increasing incidence and level of violence that citizens are willing to engage in with officers (either because of the current climate of cop hate, the increasing preponderance of drugs or the seeming increase in mental health issues) is something this generation of LE is still coming to grips with. And because of that climate of increased violence against cops, EVERYONE is a suspect. Every stop, every interaction, every movement, every gesture no matter how small, is a potential threat to an officer. Don't think that if you are a white, middle aged woman driving a nice car in a nice neighborhood, that the cop who stopped you for speeding in a school zone isn't taking in every single thing about the stop into account - what's in the vehicle, what you're wearing, how you're acting, how you're speaking, where a potential weapon COULD be, everything. Because no matter who you are, you are a potential threat.
7. Cops would never say so in public but they DO profile. If the description includes well dressed, middle aged black man they're going to be looking for well dressed, middle aged black men. If the description includes white male, early 20s, driving a dark blue or black 79 Oldsmobile that's who will get swept up in stops. If the crime occurred in a predominantly black neighborhood, typically they're not looking for a white suspect. Typically. Not always. But usually. And when the clock is ticking cops go with broad descriptions and work their way down into more narrow descriptions as more information becomes available. None of that minimizes the experience of your husband. And there are some racists among the 850,000 law enforcement officers that patrol the streets of America. Just as there are some sexists and homophobes and all the other ists and obes that infest this nation and any group of 850,000 people. But I can also tell you that MOST (as in the vast majority) are not. Most try VERY hard to just do the right thing, represent themselves and their profession well, take care of the communities they serve, and keep their communities as safe as they can. I can also tell you that real, legitimate inappropriate conduct by officers is taken very seriously and those kinds of officers don't last long. Officers who work hard to do their jobs with dignity and respect and show their profession in the best light DESPISE bad cops. Did your husband get stopped just because he was black? Because he fit a description of a suspect? Because a cop hated blacks and wanted to give your husband a hard time? I don't know. It could be any of those reasons. But in the context of the article (and the ambush and murder of officers in Dallas by an armed, black suspect) I can completely understand the wife of this lawyer asking her husband to stay put. These are crazy times and in the craziness, it is not unheard of for innocents to get caught up in the craziness. Maybe we should be asking what we can do as a society to stop the craziness?
This is too long, but just some random thoughts on your (and my) experiences.
Sounds like an insecure person who has a bit of a racist complex, in fact it sounds like something a racist self hating SJW would come up with to promote their point.
In fact, I know you are full of crap.
That's rude. And doesn't make one bit of sense.
But I will try to be more respectful to you than you were to me.
I am, in fact, not at all full of crap. I strive to live my entire life with honesty and integrity. Nothing I wrote in that post was made up. What about that story would lead you accuse me of being "racist self hating"? That's a pretty silly conclusion to come to when part of the story is me actually saying I enjoy being myself.
Here lies the issue: black people don't think they actually have a problem and all of their "problems" are caused by systematic racist which only black people know to exist.
You know all the black people?! That's amazing! So, none of them listen to your analysis? Or maybe you tell one black person how to "fix their problems" and somehow all the black people hear it at the same time? Like ESP. And then make a group decision to ignore your advice? Otherwise, it would take you forever to converse with all the black people, all of whom you know personally, of course. But you'd think you would have been able to convince at least one or two out of the millions of black people.
For the most part American culture treats people exceptionally well. Better than any country in world history. Its time to put away the identity politics which only work to divide us.
That's a pretty ironic statement^^
Think about it: If you don't happily hop on board with mainstream American culture, you're accused of "identity politics" but those accusing others of "identity politics" have decided they are the arbiters of American culture, setting the standard all others are judged by. There's nothing more "identity" obsessed than that.
I'm white but have heard plenty of stories to know it's alive and well, especially with law enforcement. For example, three black women I know were pulled over on the highway in Pennsylvania for no reason at all (no speeding, tail light, expired tags, etc). Officer demanded to know where they were going, and when told "Victory (brewpub)" wanted to know why they were going to drink beer if they were driving. Then demanded to see ID from the passengers as well. Didn't let them leave until they complied fully, even though no crime had been committed.
I'm sure every black person in America has a similar story, often worse.
Spoken like a person who doesn't endure anti-black racism. "It hasn't happened to me so it must not exist."
They know that it exists....they don't care....and neither should we.
"WE" need to stop giving an "F" about what "THEY" think about us.
"WE" need to focus on supporting our own and stop worrying about "THEM" allowing us into "THEIR" spaces.
"WE" need to stop worrying about whether "THEY" like "US", want "US", accept "US".
The MAIN reason that the Civil Rights Movement was not fully successful was because "WE" were too busy thinking that "THEY" are better. "THEIR" places, spaces and things are better. "WE" traded what we built for "THEIR" mediocrity and it has been our greatest downfall.
I'm blown away that black men only do 10% more time for the same crime as white men, it should be much more, because...
1. Black men are much more likely to be caught committing crime in high crime areas.
2. Black men are much more likely to be members of violent gangs that kill over territory.
3. Black men are much more likely to use a public defender.
That's just the start now to the PSI Report, AKA optional Pre Sentencing Investigation. Your PSI report often determines how much time you will do because it can accurately predict your chances of recidivism. Things a PSI report looks into.
1. Do you have relatives that are gang members/incarcerated
2. Are you from/ going to be paroled to a high crime neighborhood.
3. Were you suspended, expelled a lot from school.
People just see a statistic that black men do more time than whites for similar crimes and immediately think it's racism because they probably do not understand how the judicial system and sentencing works. If black men are being sentenced to the same time as whites for the same crime by black judges, it's obvious knowing all this the judges are being biased. No gang member from a gang controlled area, and family of gang members should to the same time for a crime as a guy from the burbs and a good family because his chance of recidivism/ being a career criminal/ murdering somebody is 100 times lower.
I don't know if you realize this, but your post makes it sound like you're saying all black men are gangbangers from the ghetto, while all white men are from "good families" in the "burbs"
If there's something I've learned from conservatives, and especially Trump supporters, it's that they're unflinchingly unwilling to try to see another perspective or walk in someone else's shoes.
I've read some interesting post. People sharing the feeling in situations where they felt discriminated against, One poster made a very good point, about "Prejudice" and relation to "Racism".
The elements in all these things is that much of it is environmentally learned things, some are even traditionally passed along over generations.
We all know, among all people regardless of the type of prejudice and racist situations they may have encountered, the black experience over history has been different from all others. It's a mountain to overcome and for us as a society, we also know, when the horrors of slavery ended, and even through segregation, "nothing was given to black people to help heal the mental wounds of a history of what prejudice and racist invoked upon and within a mass of black people". During Segregation, not only was violence used, but law enforcement, from the street police to the Judicial system was structured based on many of the old slavery derived lows and the influences of Jim Crow systems. This was compounded by a historical message passed on among generations of white society, that black people were less than human.
Now, imagine what it takes for a society to overcome such a concept about black people. It is today in the world that many have come to learn how vile that was, but often time their response is, "I was not living back then, and I don't live with those thoughts today". On both sides, black and white, people have to find ways to regard that, but what it means for white people, is they have to be sensitive to how they say things, they have to think about the cultural commonest that certain things were said, and what inference it carries which may convey a thought of a feeling they did not mean, but it is something that was part of the folklore grooming that was common language in their societal group. For black people, we too know the many concepts that developed about white people, based on the treatment that was upon and against the black person, and within that, we cannot choose to live as if all white people are the same, when we desire to be seen as an individual of which not all black people are the same.
Back in the days when slavery existed, the talk of blacks being lazy, was disastrously insulting and misplaced, when one would expect passion filled work as if one loved it, after slavery, the talk of blacks being lazy was again disastrously insulting and misplaced to expect people to work for less than nothing. This stereotypical madness was passed on over centuries as folklore stereotypes which has been a yoke of unbearable insult and degradation upon black people. It has been a hinderence upon black people for centuries and decades, of an level that has further economic despair. The further inequity, the continual usage of "unqualified" as a derregatory inference as if to imply inferior, has also been a damaging impact, both on the skilled, the unskilled, the educated and uneducated. It infers a prejudice even before they are given a task, and often times it become an element that is set and staged to present denials, before being considered as an indiviaual. It has forced situations that people were not only discredited for their work, but credit stolen from them for their work, and attitudes of contentions for being and expressing knowledge, understanding and self confidence in self and work. These are of often things, white society has been groomed to do, and not review themselves and think of what they are doing. But if and when the same things are done to them, they become despondent, distraught, agitated, angry, resentful, and on edge to feel they are unfairly targeted and even the slightest of comment, is taken as being an insulting degredations. Then, how is it not so, that black people feel the same way, and the quickest way to sum it up is to reference the racist element of society that is the root cause of such stereotypes and the conduct that it is composed to contain.
Therefore, people have to re-assess themselves, and often white people do not want to do that, because they have never had to rethink their conduct and learn where and why they have the attitude and perceptions they have. They have not been in situations of life nor history where they had to face and deal with how the historical racism in their ethic ranks influenced their thoughts and supported their stereotypes. Yet, when such things happen to them, only then will they review, but only as it relates to whites in relations to whites. They won't think in terms of how that same primise of review is needed to look across racial elements and skin color influences. The mere presence of black skin, has been its own trigger mechanism for centuries, and black people have a challenge of trying to over come something some covertly embedded within many of white society, before they can be seen as simply an individual. Often times, white people have this cultural in-groomed stereotypes, until it comes across as second nature utterances, and until they are called on it, they are sometimes unaware of the bias they convey. When they are called, they say, "Oh, I did not means that in a racist way", in some and many cases they don't, they are just function from the folklore in-grooming which has been a part of their ethnic culture. Therefore, what is important is to think, to consider how they themselves would want to be talked to, referred to and addressed. They are of many who have to learn how they came to think and feel such ways, and in some situations why they quickly defer to those stereotypes, when the slightest inquiry is brought to their actions, their conduct and their words, and often times how it has influenced their attitudes.
Even in society today, just the name of black people whom chose names beginning in the 1970's that helped develop a self idenity as a person, from a history of having names "assigned to them", is met with negativity, rather than simply appreciate and respect the name the individual has, not whether it meets with white societies standardized list of names. Only since the emergence of many Asian and Other Foreign people have become common in society, has white American opened up to accept peoples names, that did not fit with the regular, Mary, John, Jeff, Jake and Susan. But when it comes to black people, there is still that trigger of race and ethnicity that sets off a whole series of folklore stereotypes, because the person is given the unbiased chance to be and present themselves as an individual.
When black leaders speak up, they are considered as race rousers, because to white people, these leaders are upsetting the apple cart that white people are comfortable, with, without even considering that their apple cart is not the only type and design of cart that can carry apples. Society was not for 100's of years set up for white people to review their actions, especially when it comes to black people. They have a history of "anything goes" when it comes to blacks that was passed along.
(go watch some of the historical based show< and see how white people sat around and said insulting and denigrating things about black people,with the black individual standing right in their presence; therefore, it is evident they said similar and worst things among themselves in private. This went on to influence generations upon generations through their folklore passage of such acts and conducts. These are things white society has to learn about themselves. Not just about their thoughts of black people, but of any non white ethnicity of people. It takes self awareness and work to achive such growth and change in development. Or they pass it on by inferences to another generations.
We all have a lot of work to do. Things we do know is over many centuries bloodlines became mixed maybe not of any balance but of mixtures. That too, has many stories within what it is. It took generations, and many fights in the courts to strike down a great many discriminatory laws, and it still takes more work to strike down discriminatory social codes.
This is where our work is most needed, in the overcoming of the codes that often feed into dissensions. One big factor that is a problem that we all must come to address. "Money", money was a desperately desired pursuit that feed into the horrors of slavery's continuance, Money also created false illusions of social quality, fictions of status, and pretentious character mimic's, and it has driven a separations that has become like an infections within society.
Money has put divides, not just in white and black society, it pushes divides in white and white society, as well as within black and black society. Yet, we all claim "God" as our highest. Yet, we choose to allow money to deny everything we claim to believe of God, by the way we cling to, pursue, damage, hurt and mistreat each other based on money and the acquisition of it. No one, will take one penny from this world, and we've seen many wealthy people go mad, become every type of vile consumed image that exist of man and do many inhumane things within the society of man, and we've seen many die a horrible death, or suffer many maladies, none of which money can fix. Today we see wealthy people who have strained marriages, they can afford to go any place, buy anything, but they have such a twisted reality when it comes to simply loving each other. We see poor people who can barely make it from week to week, whether they are white or black, but they work together, share everything together, endure their hardships together and find joys to share in even the simplest things that people of wealth may take for granted and even at time think its beneath them. Love is not a respecter of Money, not does God give any extra minutes of life to any whom has money. We watch the madness of Fame and Money, whether people are black or whites, convert peoples lives into every vice known to man, fills their world with a vanity that consumes every aspect of their character, and some become lewd, vile, vicious and treacherous, even with their own family, from their mother and fathers to their children, and this too crosses every ethnic color line.
The minute one thinks their race or ethnicity puts them above another, they invite the vile into their lives and it finds a way to bring their minds to be as if its eaten away by a cancer, slowly rotting away any sense of character and demolishing any element of integrity. Often even these peoples mates despise them, and their children grow to detest them, and they become bitter and fight against the world, and come to the misery where they don't trust anyone, which results to them being less trust worthy themselves.
Look at history and look at the families who profited fortunes from slavery, many are distributed today, and are consumed by every vice imaginable, until they have made money their whole lifes aims, until their lives become a series of pretentious, which, vice consumes them or old age shows the bitterness that has turned them into the sameness as we see of a grape becoming a prune. Toi be Racist is like slapping God in the Face. It you are black, white or others, if you are racist, then you slap at God every time you act on it.
We see a sadness within many black people, whom are anguished that some whites refuse to think in terms of equality, and some allow the pursuit of money to make their whole lives distant from even the acts of respect for other ethnicity and other races, and some become even resentful two many of their own race. Some become driven thinking more will make them something they cannot become with more, but they chase it anyway, and the further they descend into inhumanities madness. They become to influence in society the lack of trust of their own ethnicity and race, by others, because they have made money such a goal, until they have voided out the limits of what they will do to pursue it. This become a problem for the working poor, because even among their ranks, they take up that same distrust, because they've both seen it far too often as the mentality and conduct of the well to do, and people emulate what they see.
Society today, is learning, that such things matter less, none of it will give you an immunizations from cancer, accident and injury and it certainly will not give you a protective suit against becoming and being a fool, nor from doing foolish things. Many in such chases, also live in such desperation's, for fear that if they loose that measure of money which they base their live standard and character quality, therefore they become even a danger to themselves, they become a detriment even unto those whom they claim to love, as well as those they choose to marry.
We've seen people over history contort and distort religion and choose to twist the bible, trying to justify the madness of racism, prejudice and even tried to justify slavery, and all such ones, became nothing more than an admonition against the Lord's truth, and if history is reviewed truthfully, their family legacy became filled by every kind of torment, they threw money at trying to hide, cover up, and some even went into great denials of many types, and as they did, more challenges filled their lives. Ill gotten gains by the abuse of mankind shall profit none in the hear nor win any favor in Gods Truth. Some don't care !!! they choose the vanity of material consumption, and become themselves consumed by the same material matters, where they will take their own lives if they face loosing such material things.
Some have killed their parents and child as well, for the pursuit of money and it become wasted, because themselves have become a waste of their own soul, and it attracts the same madness that it lives to pursue.
Very Wealthy Men through history, found that no amount of money measured what they thought it would, from the history of Dale Carnegie, Henry Ford, JP Morgan, to Warren Buffet and Bill Gates, and they found, that such pursuit and such gains of such wealth, benefited them not one extra moment of life, and the more they acquired the more what was acquired consumed them and their time. They set out to give it away, because if Humanity Suffers, they too find that the world they thought it would bring, only filled the world around them with even greater despair.
It is today, a mentality that has to become the driver in our Political Realm, for they must learn to make the right choices and the only choice is to support governance who's prime objective is the support, care and protections of the people. Not about who amasses wealth, nor who can manipulate the system with wealth, but to be and become being politicians who are above being influenced by such, and stay true to the prime objective which is support, care and protections of the people and the lands.
It is each persons responsibility to learn of the past and all the horrors of it, not with denials, but with truths to see and learn, that they can change and grow, and it is the work of every individual to work hard at learning what is understanding and to embrace to try to grow being better human beings by what understanding gives and the work they give into understanding. You, each have that choice?
Racism and Prejudice will give you nothing that you can love.
All those whom have all these stereotyped summations, are themselves brought to the judgment of themselves by their own stereotypes and become despised and viewed themselves as being lower than the stereotypes they promote.
You have a choice to remain in ignorance or choose the pursue of knowledge, and you can only find unity in yourself, by the knowledge you gain that brings you to respect others. and without the work and active effort to appreciate others, you only dance in a circle of misery that plagues you in the inner parts of yourself.
As to people liking one or the others, some people do not like people of their own ethnicity for what ever is the motivations, and we have to learn that all dislike is not racial, but we have to think in ourselves to make sure that we don't base our dislike on some steretypical summary based on folklore racism. If you just don't like the character or personality of an "INDIVIDUAL", then one need to ensure in themselves that it is not based on some racial or ethnic stereotype. There are white people who don't like some other white people, and likewise among every ethnicity.
Even in that, we have to learn and think about what our dislike is rooted in. because many biases have been passed on over generations, and we need to learn as each individual how to be an individual, and that means, before we claim our dislike, we need to know what influences it. That is the only way we can come to learn to respect others and not disrespect ourselves by the expressions of disrespect for and of and about others. It is work to learn to be an "Individual".. and respect the fact every other person is tasked with that very same responsibility and work. Some learn how to engage it better than others, some learn earlier than others, and some may not learn ... Therefore, what helps any is the act and engagement of "communication" when and where possible and feasible. So, let not haughtiness make one blind unto and of themselves, and blind them to the realization of others.
Now, the questions is, who is of the inner strength to learn these things, and who is the of the wisdom to have the fortitude to live these truths. That is whom become the ones, who works to honor Gods Truth in Gods World.....
No one can buy Honor, You can purchase respect, and certainly you can never amass enough of anything to gain and ounce of dignity... These are things that become part of you, only by the truth you embrace in respecting mankind in this world and within your life.
Any can seek to deny and or all of this, and it gains you nothing. but more indulged efforts into self deceptions. You can choose your own hell, or choose to become a part of the peace making in the world.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 02-07-2017 at 07:48 AM..
I have my own stories regarding racism where I live in Georgia. I can't speak for the family that you are mentioning. However, I can tell you think. Being a good, hardworking person will not shield a person from racism. One reason I don't buy that "if you were more like Asians you wouldn't be treated as bad" line.
I'm Asian and we get the crap, too.
Not usually overt, but little, little things, over and over...
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