Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I disagree with this completely. Mainly, because I know several black neighborhoods that are predominately black, yet, are worth more white neighborhoods in my hometown.
Again, it depends on the factors and situations, but mainly depends on the city and state. I know a thing about this (I used to work for the big 2 mortgage giants), that's why I say this is a BS study. In all of my years working for these companies, I've never seen any study like this before because the variables nationwide are pretty impossible to paint an accurate picture.
If we're talking about the "ghetto" vs a white neighborhood, sure. But again, to assign race to this and to make a generalized statement, doesn't add up. I'm a black homeowner myself in a predominately white neighborhood. I've noticed over the years more and more blacks and middle easterners are moving in. Guess what? The property values are going up and the whites aren't moving out at all. My property value went up almost 80K in 5 years and we have more blacks moving in, so that's why I stress location and property value make a big difference in a study like this.
That's why studies like this may offer some factual information, but, the stats are simply incorrect here. The only way this can be a true study if it's based per state or per major city, but the US as a whole, this is something that's pretty impossible to put on a chart, statistically.
On the bold, I stated in my initial posts that black neighborhoods that similar to those majority white neighborhoods, meaning they are filled with people who have the same incomes and who have the same educational backgrounds.
In your area, compare those highly valued majority black neighborhoods to predominately white neighborhoods with the same demographics (not poor white neighborhoods) and you will see the black ones are worth less money than the white ones.
FWIW, I worked in housing for many years and I know, in depth, the history of housing discrimination and of redlining and I know that it is fact that black areas of equal income demographics to whites are worth less than those white areas.
I also know for a fact that when blacks with similar incomes and educations move to a predominantly white neighborhood in too large of a population (15-20%) that whites will start to move out and that neighborhood will stabilize in value or lose value.
This stuff has been studied for about 40 years.
See article below, which has been posted on this forum before.
The Divided American Dream It is about how black suburban communities in Atlanta did not gain back the equity that was lost during the housing crisis like the majority white neighborhoods did. Due to this, the black families, many of whom make 6 figures and who are educated, have a net worth (wealth) that is in the negative or in the range shown in the OP.
From the link:
Quote:
Now, a house that looks otherwise identical in South DeKalb, on the edge of Atlanta, might sell for half what it would in North DeKalb. The difference has widened over the years of the housing boom, bust and recovery, and Wayne Early can’t explain it.
The people here make good money, he says. They have good jobs. Their homes are built of the same sturdy brick. Early, an economic development consultant and real estate agent, can identify only one obvious difference that makes property here worth so much less.
“This can’t happen by accident,” he says. “It’s too tightly correlated with race for it to be based on something else.”
The communities in South DeKalb are almost entirely African American, and they reflect a housing disparity that emerges across the Atlanta metropolitan area and the nation. According to a new Washington Post analysis, the higher a Zip code’s share of black residents in the Atlanta region, the worse its housing values have fared over the past turbulent housing cycle.
In regards to your comment about it depending on the "city and state" it actually does not matter. In all cities and in all states if 15-20% of black people move in a predominantly white neighborhood, whites will start to move and the neighborhood will either stabilize or lose value.
The link about Atlanta is the same situation that happened in all the major metro areas around the country, even the small one where I live today. I used to live in metro Atlanta so am very knowledgable in particular about that area. But white flight is still happening today. Mostly it is happening in the suburbs and it occurs whether the minority is black, hispanic, or Asian.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 03-24-2017 at 02:32 PM..
FYI - I know the difference between wealth and income.
The reason why 2 parent black households have less wealth than single parent white families is because of the remnants of housing discrimination.
Two parent black homeowners, even those who have an income that is equal or greater than a white family, if they live in a predominantly black neighborhood, they will automatically have less equity (wealth) in their home because black neighborhoods are valued less than majority white neighborhoods.
This is a remnant of redlining from the 20th century that valued black neighborhoods as less than predominantly white, no matter any other statistics.
The whole credit spiel you stated above has nothing to do with the facts that due to institutional racism via redlining - something that occurred due to FHA loans (that black families could not take advantage of for many years as well BTW post WW2) the legacy of that racism lives on in our homes being valued less.
FWIW, I have a higher net worth than the OP chart as a 2 parent lead, college educated black family. However, that is only because I own 6 homes. Our first home that we purchased in Atlanta was not worth much money because it is in a majority black neighborhood. Even safe, good school having, majority black suburban communities in Atlanta are not worth as much as a majority white district with the same types of homes. This is because of the legacy of racism in America. My equity on my first home was only $20k when we first bought it and that was easily eaten up due to the housing crisis. Due to that crisis and due to having some other investments we purchased other homes in majority black neighborhoods with cash which we rent out and have full equity (wealth). We still only have about $20k on that original home which I still own. The other houses are in much more dilapidated neighborhoods but due to buying in cash we have $60-$100k in equity/wealth for each of those homes and they provide a source of income due to being rented out.
Black families have to buy 3 homes to equal the equity of a white family's home. It doesn't matter if we have good credit or not or if we have a good job and make a good income. Only if we move around predominantly white people can we have an equitable amount of wealth as white families and if "too many" of us move to those areas, white families will leave and that will decrease the wealth of the black families who remain. White flight is still very much occurring in America today.
even though not personally black, I can personally see what you are saying- partners parent is the lone white hold out in his neighborhood in Alabama, I keep asking why they cant move out to be closer to us (frail health, etc) and my partner just says, house isnt worth anything these days(to sell for the move)...
He remembers growing up it was a mixed neighborhood but now its mostly black, with a couple abandoned homes ...
it's ok though... his parent is also the daytime caregiver for the two grandkids(who are black, actually, d/t they are step daughter's) and would never leave them...frail health or not....
yup, shows that institutional racism, well- it does really still exist.
Despite what all the naysayers would have you believe on this forum with all their mockery and ridicule of SJW-ers...
(or maybe its like that guy on the radio was saying yesterday- that he is ok with white privilege, and wants his kids to have it too-
at least he's being honest)...
Perhaps more accurately it shows you that it existed and thus allowed certain races to accumulate more wealth and appreciation for education etc.
That is why today we have lots of minority scholarships, income based aid and scholarships, things like affirmative action etc. to help redress those past injustices.
Certainly, any rational person can appreciate why older blacks don't have the wealth amassed that whites do. However, extrapolating that to todays opportunities for a given 20yo black and white kid is where the comparison falters a bit. (Yes there is still racism today, at the same time there are some benefits to off-set it as well.)
Things aren't perfect but they have gotten a lot better. Family wealth spreads down several generations so that disparity is going to take many many many generations to overcome even if everything today is completely fair.
On the bold, I stated in my initial post that black neighborhoods that similar to those majority white neighborhoods, meaning they are filled with people who have the same incomes and who have the same educational backgrounds.
In your area, compare those highly valued majority black neighborhoods to predominately white neighborhoods with the same demographics (not poor white neighborhoods) and you will see the black ones are worth less money than the white ones.
FWIW, I worked in housing for many years and I know, in depth, the history of housing discrimination and of redlining and I know that it is fact that black areas of equal income demographics to whites are worth less than those white areas.
I also know for a fact that when blacks with similar incomes and educations move to a predominantly white neighborhood in too large of a population (15-20%) that whites will start to move out and that neighborhood will stabilize in value or lose value.
This stuff has been studied for about 40 years.
See article below, which has been posted on this forum before.
The Divided American Dream It is about how black suburban communities in Atlanta did not gain back the equity that was lost during the housing crisis like the majority white neighborhoods did. Due to this, the black families, many of whom make 6 figures and who are educated, have a net worth (wealth) that is in the negative or in the range shown in the OP.
From the link:
I see what you're saying but...still, again, the information you're giving me isn't purely factual.
"In your area, compare those highly valued majority black neighborhoods to predominately white neighborhoods with the same demographics (not poor white neighborhoods) and you will see the black ones are worth less money than the white ones. "
I live in Northern Virginia, and I own a home in the wealthiest county in the nation. What you said here just isn't true for that county. There are some black areas and white areas, but I don't see how the black homes are worth less. That's just not true. The neighborhood I grew up in was predominately black and consisted of SFH's built in the 90's and our value was the same or more than surrounding white homes there. I know this because we almost moved to the white but cheaper area, but my parents ultimately decided on the other neighborhood and my dad had to work a bit more when I grew up. That's why I say that stat that I bolded above doesn't necessarily work. In fact, I had black neighbors move OUT and now my parents neighborhood consists of more WHITE families in 2017.
"I also know for a fact that when blacks with similar incomes and educations move to a predominantly white neighborhood in too large of a population (15-20%) that whites will start to move out and that neighborhood will stabilize in value or lose value."
Again, I'm not saying you're incorrect...but this doesn't always really apply in all cases. It really depends on the city, the property values, and the job market in these scenarios. This may have been in older generations, but with all of the major cities I've been to and small towns, I've seen both scenarios happen.
Again, that's why I say that a study like this doesn't hold much volume at all and needs to be broken down by city and region. Most jobs are moving to the east and west coast. This doesn't take into account factors like gentrification, LGBT families, couples/singles who own/rent, the amount of foreclosures and/or short sales, etc. This study is too broad to really paint an accurate picture. With the way it's laid out, of course it makes blacks look terrible, but you can't compare blacks in the ghetto parts of Milwaukee or Chicago to blacks in the upper west side of NYC and then throw them into the same bucket, otherwise, you're going to see skewed results like the one in the OP's article. Not to mention, in the USA, whites are the majority anyway. Blacks make up, what, 14% of the nation?
I agree with you, redsing, but I also disagree with you. If that makes any sense. This article just feels like another "white people have white privilege....sucks to be anything but white and it's hard for other races to make it in the world" kinda articles. Not saying that racial disparities don't exist when it comes to housing, because it certainly happens, but there could be other factors involved too. This article is too broad.
I see what you're saying but...still, again, the information you're giving me isn't purely factual.
"In your area, compare those highly valued majority black neighborhoods to predominately white neighborhoods with the same demographics (not poor white neighborhoods) and you will see the black ones are worth less money than the white ones. "
I live in Northern Virginia, and I own a home in the wealthiest county in the nation. What you said here just isn't true for that county. There are some black areas and white areas, but I don't see how the black homes are worth less. That's just not true. The neighborhood I grew up in was predominately black and consisted of SFH's built in the 90's and our value was the same or more than surrounding white homes there. I know this because we almost moved to the white but cheaper area, but my parents ultimately decided on the other neighborhood and my dad had to work a bit more when I grew up. That's why I say that stat that I bolded above doesn't necessarily work. In fact, I had black neighbors move OUT and now my parents neighborhood consists of more WHITE families in 2017.
"I also know for a fact that when blacks with similar incomes and educations move to a predominantly white neighborhood in too large of a population (15-20%) that whites will start to move out and that neighborhood will stabilize in value or lose value."
Again, I'm not saying you're incorrect...but this doesn't always really apply in all cases. It really depends on the city, the property values, and the job market in these scenarios. This may have been in older generations, but with all of the major cities I've been to and small towns, I've seen both scenarios happen.
Again, that's why I say that a study like this doesn't hold much volume at all and needs to be broken down by city and region. Most jobs are moving to the east and west coast. This doesn't take into account factors like gentrification, LGBT families, couples/singles who own/rent, the amount of foreclosures and/or short sales, etc. This study is too broad to really paint an accurate picture. With the way it's laid out, of course it makes blacks look terrible, but you can't compare blacks in the ghetto parts of Milwaukee or Chicago to blacks in the upper west side of NYC and then throw them into the same bucket, otherwise, you're going to see skewed results like the one in the OP's article.
I agree with you, redsing, but I also disagree with you. If that makes any sense.
We'd have to look at the trends in your N. VA neighborhoods.
I've reviewed a lot of reports on this and they were from various regions of the country.
I honestly feel that this issue in regards to wealth and housing discrimination in regards to value is the only thing in a black families life that can cause all black families a "harm" in regards to our economic situation.
In regards to trends, you have to look at the population demographics. How many blacks vs whites. You may think there were just as many blacks as whites but that may not have been the case. We'd have to look at the racial demographics for 20-30 years and compare those zip codes/neighborhoods to predominantly black or predominantly white areas and see which ones hold the best value or are more valuable.
Also, you have to note that diverse neighborhoods actually do hold their value pretty well in some metro areas, but even in those areas if the diversity is heavily tilted toward either a black or hispanic minority, they won't be worth as much as a neighborhood with less blacks and hispanics.
Please note to you and others, this is not something I'm discussing based on "whining" or "blaming" or anything like that. I discuss it IRL with a lot of black people in order to educate them about the fact that we, as black Americans cannot follow the typical "American Dream" and we need to be more innovative in how we invest and acquire valuable assets. Also, I hope to educate those whites who may not know that this really is a "thing" and it really is the reason why you see the charts and information shown within the OP. Income and education have nothing really to do with acquiring wealth. Many educated people and many people who make a lot of money, regardless of their race, they are not wealthy because they are heavily in debt and have a negative net worth as a result.
I'll also admit that when I first learned about this stuff, it made me pretty angry. It doesn't today because I've learned to maneuver around it. But housing is the cause of many of the ills that blacks in America face today. The neighborhood you live in affects your school, the crime you are around, the pollution you are near, and can limit your opportunities in life. Redlining and discriminatory housing practices did not end to any wide degree until the early 1980s in most major urban areas like Atlanta and Chicago and DC and others. It was not until then that black Americans started to rise in a positive way in various statistics and that is not a coincidence. You cage people in a place and limit where they can go and they have few options.
How are the values of homes is nice suburban, majority black neighborhoods in any way related to "benefits" lol.
The black people who live in nice neighborhoods who don't have equity because they live in black neighborhoods have good incomes, went to school and don't get any benefits.
Their neighborhoods are worth less because anywhere that blacks live is automatically valued lower than majority with areas.
You all don't seem to get this very simple concept (back at ya lol )
Automatically valued lower because blacks commit way many crimes.
Racism does not compel Black people to commit murders, mostly murdering fellow blacks.
We'd have to look at the trends in your N. VA neighborhoods.
I've reviewed a lot of reports on this and they were from various regions of the country.
I honestly feel that this issue in regards to wealth and housing discrimination in regards to value is the only thing in a black families life that can cause all black families a "harm" in regards to our economic situation.
In regards to trends, you have to look at the population demographics. How many blacks vs whites. You may think there were just as many blacks as whites but that may not have been the case. We'd have to look at the racial demographics for 20-30 years and compare those zip codes/neighborhoods to predominantly black or predominantly white areas and see which ones hold the best value or are more valuable.
Also, you have to note that diverse neighborhoods actually do hold their value pretty well in some metro areas, but even in those areas if the diversity is heavily tilted toward either a black or hispanic minority, they won't be worth as much as a neighborhood with less blacks and hispanics.
Please note to you and others, this is not something I'm discussing based on "whining" or "blaming" or anything like that. I discuss it IRL with a lot of black people in order to educate them about the fact that we, as black Americans cannot follow the typical "American Dream" and we need to be more innovative in how we invest and acquire valuable assets. Also, I hope to educate those whites who may not know that this really is a "thing" and it really is the reason why you see the charts and information shown within the OP. Income and education have nothing really to do with acquiring wealth. Many educated people and many people who make a lot of money, regardless of their race, they are not wealthy because they are heavily in debt and have a negative net worth as a result.
I'll also admit that when I first learned about this stuff, it made me pretty angry. It doesn't today because I've learned to maneuver around it. But housing is the cause of many of the ills that blacks in America face today. The neighborhood you live in affects your school, the crime you are around, the pollution you are near, and can limit your opportunities in life. Redlining and discriminatory housing practices did not end to any wide degree until the early 1980s in most major urban areas like Atlanta and Chicago and DC and others. It was not until then that black Americans started to rise in a positive way in various statistics and that is not a coincidence. You cage people in a place and limit where they can go and they have few options.
No, not at all! I like this discussion and am enjoying it! And I'm glad that you do that and educate others on this! The thing I hate is letting society keep us down for no reason, so it's a great thing to be educated on.
My dad could've fell for the same "yay lets rely on society and gov't tell me what to do". Instead, just researched and found ways to get out of it.
But yeah, this study is just difficult and I just think it's hard to lump an overall picture of the nation into one graph. When I used to work on short sales and foreclosures, we didn't do nationwide stats, but it mainly was always divided up by at least state, but usually it was always city/state and we looked at property values and the trends in the real estate market during that time. (I was involved with that Home Affordable Mortgage Loan program a few years ago). It's just a ton of data to consume.
When black people move to "good neighborhoods" that are majority white, white people will move away. Once those white people move away, even with upper income blacks predominantly left, that neighborhood will lose value.
Again, you all seem to be naive to this simple information for some reason.... (again back at ya lol )
I say they are worth less than majority white neighborhoods who have white people with similar educations and incomes.
Same thing as I've said throughout the thread.
Also I'd point out that white people don't move to those neighborhoods. Why not??
That question is always something that many whites either can't or wont' answer honestly. In metro Atlanta there are very nice neighborhoods with "good schools" and "low crime" that are majority black, yet whites will not move to those neighborhoods in any high number. Yet, black people will move to a predominantly white neighborhood with "good schools" and "low crime." It is interesting to me.
Perhaps more accurately it shows you that it existed and thus allowed certain races to accumulate more wealth and appreciation for education etc.
That is why today we have lots of minority scholarships, income based aid and scholarships, things like affirmative action etc. to help redress those past injustices.
Certainly, any rational person can appreciate why older blacks don't have the wealth amassed that whites do. However, extrapolating that to todays opportunities for a given 20yo black and white kid is where the comparison falters a bit. (Yes there is still racism today, at the same time there are some benefits to off-set it as well.)
Things aren't perfect but they have gotten a lot better. Family wealth spreads down several generations so that disparity is going to take many many many generations to overcome even if everything today is completely fair.
things have gotten better, but theres still aways to go, thats for sure....
and its good to keep in mind that is why there are things like 'minority scholarships, income based aid and scholarships, things like affirmative action etc.'....
as you yourself pointed out.
(I feel like theres been so much resentment of the above lately, without there being voiced the reasons for it)...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
(back at ya lol 
)
